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Offline fuzzybearTopic starter

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Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« on: April 08, 2004, 02:27:10 PM »
Anyone know of approximately how many total Amiga units were sold world wide from the 1000 to the pre-Gateway days?
 

Offline ltstanfo

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2004, 02:46:42 PM »
Quote

fuzzybear wrote:
Anyone know of approximately how many total Amiga units were sold world wide from the 1000 to the pre-Gateway days?


Best I can recall is that at the peak of C= (Commodore) there were approximately 6 millions units in distribution / use (worldwide).  That number rapidly declined when C= went bankrupt in 1994.  Anything sold after that would only be a very small number by comparison.  I don't even recall seeing sales figures for any post C= distribution.  There was a brief "buzz" about Petro's sale of some inventory to India in the late 1990's but even that was mostly left over C= inventory.  The number of post C= systems built by either AMIGA Technologies or QuikPak was small...again using left over (mostly) C= components for the A4000T and A1200.

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Offline odin

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2004, 02:50:49 PM »
I thought the total number of Amigas built was something like 4 million. With about 1 million A500s.

Offline ltstanfo

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2004, 02:56:43 PM »
Quote

odin wrote:
I thought the total number of Amigas built was something like 4 million. With about 1 million A500s.


Odin,

It is possible that you might be correct. There are two good online references to AMIGA sales and can be found at:

http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/amigahis/

or

http://amiga.emugaming.com/sales.html

There is a C= quoted number of 1 million units sold as of January 1989 on the islandnet.com website.  The emugaming.com website has better statistical information but even they are quick to point out that the "math" done by AMIGA magazines of the day was questionable (this site shows numbers close to what you have posted). I will look at my old C= developer documentation when I get home tonight and provide an update.  I want to think that I have something that shows total units sold during the days of C=.

Regards,
Lee Stanford
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Offline Kronos

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2004, 03:21:52 PM »
@odin

While 4 millions sound correct, 1 million A500 do not ....

C=-Germany sold ~1 millon A500s in 1991, but that was by far their best year, and lots of those actually went into shops outside of Germany.

Combined sales of non-A500-Amigas was under 400k (including 200k A1200s) with C=, followed up by a handfull of A4000T and 200k A1200s (not all produced were sold) by Escom.
1. Make an announcment.
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Offline fuzzybearTopic starter

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2004, 04:23:45 PM »
Awesome, thanks for infomation everyone!

 

Offline Tigger

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2004, 05:17:15 PM »
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@odin

While 4 millions sound correct, 1 million A500 do not ....

C=-Germany sold ~1 millon A500s in 1991, but that was by far their best year, and lots of those actually went into shops outside of Germany.

Combined sales of non-A500-Amigas was under 400k (including 200k A1200s) with C=, followed up by a handfull of A4000T and 200k A1200s (not all produced were sold) by Escom.



Kronos,

Not sure where you got those numbers about non-A500 amigas total sale being less then 400K, but its pretty inaccurate.   All of the desktop amigas sold well over 100K in unit sales, (2K, 3K, 4K) and the A3000T and UX models also were fairly big sellers.   The A1000 sold over 250K in total units so that also hurts your numbers.
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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2004, 07:08:13 PM »
Quote

fuzzybear wrote:
Awesome, thanks for infomation everyone!



Plus given that the first Amiga's are 20 years old, you have to figure there are more than 1 Amigan per computer :)
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Offline itix

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2004, 08:39:22 PM »
Hell, where these years are gone?
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Offline ltstanfo

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2004, 03:31:42 PM »
OK everyone,

As promised, I looked through my old Commodore developer documentation and acutally managed to find some marketing info that applies to our conversation.  The following information was published by C= (year of publication is also listed):

January 1989:          1 million AMIGAs sold (all models)
1991 (no month given): 2 million AMIGAs sold (all models)
April 1993:            100,000 A1200s sold since release

The above is the only official publication of AMIGA worldwide sales by C= as far as I can find.  Obviously these numbers do not (appear to) include the A4000 and A4000T series.

I spent some time searching the web last night and found an interesting post by an ex-Commodore employee where he stated that even though the CD32 was selling well, they (C=) needed to sell 200,000 units by Christmas (of 1993) but management had only ordered parts to build 100,000 units!

Finally, I found what I believe to be accurate information (as good as there will ever be) on

http://www.pegasus3d.com/total_share.html

This website shows not only sales for all AMIGA computers by year but also compares against other systems of the era (and market share as well).  The statistics seems to be fairly well researched, judging by the references shown at the bottom of the website.  The following was listed for C= sales of all AMIGA models (in 1000 unit increments):

1985  100
1986  200
1987  300
1988  400
1989  600  (totals inline with C= sales statement..see above)
1990  750
1991  1035 (totals inline with C= sales statement..see above)
1992  390
1993  155
1994  50

TOTAL SOLD = 3980 (3,980,000).

When everything is "said and done" about C= AMIGA worldwide sales, this number is close enough to the 4,000,000 sales figure seen over the years and quoted by several computer historians.  Based on the documention I have in my collection as well as what I have been able to research on the internet, I accept these numbers.  Now, keep in mind that we (the community) don't have any solid information on the number of AMIGAs sold after the demise of C= so the final count will (probably) never be known.  To be sure there have been other AMIGAs sold but I doubt that those numbers exceed any of the years listed above (reference my earlier post...most of what has been sold since the demise of C= utilized components / surplus from C= inventory).

Community "chatter" continues to talk about total sales anywhere between 4-8 million (which is probably where I got my original number..see my earlier post in this topic) but there just isn't any information available to put the total sales much higher then 4 million (maybe 5 million if we stretch the totals to include clones, set-top boxes, gambling machines, etc...)

I hope this helps to answer the question (once and for all).

Regards,
Lee
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Offline cecilia

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2004, 03:42:05 PM »
i seem to recall from the hazy past that as soon as the Toaster was available that a million amiga's were sold that year.
or someting.
maybe.
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Offline Kronos

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2004, 03:55:16 PM »
@Tigger
Finally came around to recheck "my"  source.

Quote
Absatzzahlen Commodore Deutschland bis 31.12.93
 (herausgegeben von der Marketing-Abteilung Commodore Frankfurt)
 Amiga CD32      25.000
Amiga CDTV      25.800
Amiga 500    1.081.000
Amiga 500+      79.500
Amiga 600      193.000
Amiga 1000      27.500
Amiga 1200      95.500
Amiga 2000     124.500
Amiga 3000       8.300
Amiga 4000/030   7.500
Amiga 4000/040   3.800


Well, o.k.,  it is only for Germany, but since that was their biggest market.

What is clear is that they sold about 1 A2000 for every 10 A500, and that A3000/4000 were very very rare, something that still reflects on the 2nd hand market today. A2000s, evenso older are still cheap and plentifull, while A3000/4000 are rather hard any expensive to get.

Now, it may be that big-box-Amigas sold much better in the US, but hardly 10 times as much as in Germany, as it would need to reach your 100k per model.

Even todays community shows that central-european A3/4k-owners still outnumber US-Amiga-owners (and are in turn outnumbered by central-european and UK-based A1200-owners).
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline ltstanfo

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2004, 04:21:12 PM »
Quote

Kronos wrote:

Now, it may be that big-box-Amigas sold much better in the US...


Kronos,

I believe that you may be correct on that statement.  The "big-box" AMIGAs sold quite well here in the US, the A500, A600 and A1200 sold but they tended to be "companion systems" to our A2000-A4000 systems.  I still have my C= A4000T and Tigger still has his A4000 and A3000.  Wayne had an A3000 and the majority of our user group (NASAU, the founder of this website) had "big box" AMIGAs.

Regards,
Lee
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Offline adolescent

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2004, 04:38:36 PM »
I had an A500 and A3000 new back in the day (still have the A3000).  

If we could find Toaster sales figures you can easily figure out the minimum number of A2000 sales at least.  Just about every TV station had at least a pair, as well as most cable systems.  Also, the A2000 was used by Prevue for cable system program guides, so that could be thousands.  

My local cable provider Time Warner Torrance only recently swapped their community channel (normally an informational slide show with background music) from an Amiga system to a Windows system.  Now I get to see application errors instead of guru's...

Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Tigger

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Re: Amiga total Worldwide sales figures??
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2004, 06:14:18 PM »
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@Tigger
Finally came around to recheck "my"  source.

Quote
Absatzzahlen Commodore Deutschland bis 31.12.93
 (herausgegeben von der Marketing-Abteilung Commodore Frankfurt)
 Amiga CD32      25.000
Amiga CDTV      25.800
Amiga 500    1.081.000
Amiga 500+      79.500
Amiga 600      193.000
Amiga 1000      27.500
Amiga 1200      95.500
Amiga 2000     124.500
Amiga 3000       8.300
Amiga 4000/030   7.500
Amiga 4000/040   3.800


Well, o.k.,  it is only for Germany, but since that was their biggest market.



Biggest market for the baby amigas, not the desktops.  NASAU (who founded Amiga.org) had about 50 members in 91 when we hosted the big show here in town, 3/4 of us had big block Amigas, that was the year 10 or 12 of us got A3000s so we had those and our 2000s and our 1000s.  The historical record shows that there were well over 100,000 A1000s, you show that there were over 100,000 A2000s in Germany alone (lots more then that were sold in the US), the A3000 sold a bunch of units in the US because of all the deals.  Plus every developer bought one, CATS sold 1400 of them or so.  We made well over 100,000 A4000 motherboards for Commodore, so unless there is a huge number of populated A4000 motherboards sitting around in a warehouse, the number of A4000's sold exceeded 100K.  

Quote

Now, it may be that big-box-Amigas sold much better in the US, but hardly 10 times as much as in Germany, as it would need to reach your 100k per model.

Again your data shows 2 out of 4 (A1000 & A2000) , I know the A4000 exceeded the number, given the huge popularity of the 3000 in the US, I seriously doubt it did not, especially if we count the 3000UX boxes (which Commodore sold 25K of in several college buy plans).    

Quote

Even todays community shows that central-european A3/4k-owners still outnumber US-Amiga-owners (and are in turn outnumbered by central-european and UK-based A1200-owners).

No, very confused here.  20,000 toasters or so still running, mostly in the US, Canada, Mexico, virtually all in A2K to A4K systems.   Throw in the other video equipment stuff and it gets real bad.  The issue is that these people use there stuff every day to make video, not surf the web and argue about how many Amigas were made.  Well over 1/2 of the video toasters never make it to Ebay, someone selling a second one posts on VTFML or the Newtek site and its gone 3 hours later.      
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