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[darksun9210]

hi there people,
i'm looking at upgrades for my a1200, and originally, i wanted everything to be housed in the A1200 standard case, keep everything tidy.... and small and neat instead of one of these huge tower things.

anyway, it seems to me that for the price of a new BVPPC board, i can get a g-rex and voodoo3 and have some nice handy PCI slots.

but the mediator has better software support, USB, 100Mb network etc etc... but is nearly three times the price of a grex (70GBP grex vs 190GBP mediator).

i'm happy to let my 1200 become a bit of a frankensteins monster affair, but what are peoples expiriences with speed differences between the two as the mediator uses an 8mb window?
are they both going to be supported in OS4?
how usefull is USB (what kind of device support is there for the amiga)?
are TV cards just a gimmick, or can you record from them too?
100Mb networking is handy, but 10Mb is still usefull. is it any faster than a PCMCIA NIC card in REAL terms?

what do people think?

thanks for any response :-)

[lempkee]

mediator is great , exellent speed/software and so on.

on ppc with mediator ure stuck with 8mb system ram (a1200 ONLY) but u can access the whole area of the gfx card for warpd3d and such.

in 68k mode the mediator can use all of the cards videoram.

mediator is supported in OS4

now the bad part.

grexx will NOT work with os4.

Grexx is infact (or was when i had one 2 years ago) faster than mediator but radical things happened to mediator since then and now i am not sure if grexx is any faster at all anymore (mine died (grexx) so i cant test or confirm it..)

grexx will offer full system ram but youre stuck with old software and lots and lots of "ONE DAY" statements , as in it will come but we dont know why or when.

worst case with the grexx is the fact that it can destroy your bppc along with it in a crash , that didnt happen to me but it happened to a few friends of mine.

my grexx lasted 12+ hours before it melted, my bppc survived , anyway the worst part is that grexx is mounted on the pci slot on the bppc which is a pain in the arse even with a BVISION card (i am sure anyone can confirm that its not been a fun trip) .

also , the grexx is produced by DCE which turns you back to the repair case if anything happens to it, mine came back after 18months and wasnt repaird , though i made it clear i wanted it back no matter what just to set an example.

so i could safely say it like this "GO FOR MEDIATOR" .

cheers

[lempkee]

ps: there is cheap mediator solutions , at approx 100 ukp, u should consider them if there is a money issue, they have 2 pci slots and can be upgraded later if u want that (with an easy solution)

cheers

[darksun9210]

thanks for the reply! that much info is a great help

just one last question, what exactly did you mean by under PPC only 8Mb ram is available? or is this how the mediator is addressed by the PPC rather than the 68k?

well money isn't really an issue... well it is. but so long as i know what i'm going for, i can budget accordingly. (ie, less beer and smokes, sell car....)

my main worry was the OS4 not supporting it.

thanks again!

[lempkee]

darksun9210 wrote:
thanks for the reply! that much info is a great help

just one last question, what exactly did you mean by under PPC only 8Mb ram is available? or is this how the mediator is addressed by the PPC rather than the 68k?

well money isn't really an issue... well it is. but so long as i know what i'm going for, i can budget accordingly. (ie, less beer and smokes, sell car....)

my main worry was the OS4 not supporting it.

thanks again!

what i meant by the 8mb window on..

this is simply explained as .
1. 68k = any mem size on the gfx card (ie p96 will address the videomemory (gfx card) , ie 4,8,16,32,64 etc , even with warp3d etc.

2. ppc = any mem size on the gfx card UNLESS you you Warpos + WARP3d at the same time.

3. PPC with Warpos + Warp3d = this will force you to be stuck with 8mb MAX gfx memory in the system , this means that even if you have a 64mb gfx card only 8mb will be used for AMIGAOS/warpos stuff , the rest of the memory can be addressed to the rest of the memory available but only via WARPD3d (ie games).

4.os4 = no comments )about p96 and warpd3d and 8mb window.

---some more info about number 3. , by system ram i mean ie backdrops , mui skins and so on, this address the system videoram , so basically it will be abit like old days and the 2mb chip problem , but seriosuly it aint that bad and if you look in the picture section (gallery) here at amiga.org u can see my workbench screens showing my system wb with ppc,wos/w3d and mediator.

it is annoying but its not destroying...

[lempkee]

argh forgot one thing.

its basically an issue (8mb window) because of the Warpos (ppc kernel) and Warp3d , conflicts under mediator , the grexx doesnt have this problem and amiga4000/3000 doesnt have this issue either (on mediators on a4k/a3k)

cheers

[darksun9210]

aha, ok, i kinda see .... i'll have a play in three months when i can afford it all and see whats what

warpOS warp3D conflict? hmmmm :/ sounds painfull. my main idea for wanting a Voodoo3 over a BVision was the 16Mb vs 8mb ram. having a big backdrop on my workbench tended to suck video ram, and occasionally heretic2 would complain about being out of video memory. so it thought 16Mb would remove this. but if its limited to 8Mb internally? does this become a moot point?

i'm looking to install cybergraphics as opposed to picasso96. is this going to be a problem too?

[lempkee]

there u have your point! ..well put.

the bvision is limited to 8mb indeed but thats system ram + apps/games ram.

as i said earlier u have 8mb for system ram and if u have a voodoo5 5000 then u have 24mb free for games , but only if u configure it correctly (its abit of a hassle but i and elbox can explain that pretty easyly along with other experienced users).

BUT! basically you should never go under 4mb systemram when running /starting a game ie like heretic2 due to some unknown reason , i noticed this after some "AAAAAARGHS" and "UUUUUUUGHS" if u know what i mean..

anyway u have mem tools (availp96) available to show memory in use/free so its not like on cgx where you have to work in blind, thats a pluss atleast.

anyway if u have 4mb free system videoram then games etc will start fine and use the videoram thats free (ie if u have a voodoo 5 5000 then the 24mb's free and not in use by the system it self will be used only for the game and make it faster etc)

sorta hard to explain but hell the mediator was/is my best buy since the 060 i bought in 95.

i never ran out of gfx ram for games and such after i bought a mediator but i have got issues with workbench and "multiple screens" sucking up all the 8mb's of system videoram , though it wont crash or anything but will start to look weird.


ok i guess i confused u more than ever now...lol...

[lempkee]

oh and NO you cant use CGX on mediator , p96 is on mediator and os4 , cgx is the morphos direction.

that said , both has its ups and downs but clearly p96 has an advantage with easy software and a clean install procedure and lots of neat tools.

grexx use cgx so if u cant live without that then thats the only option...

that said , i feel p96 is faster + p96 is still developed for classic amigas (mediator) , cgx aint ..or heh i havent seen any updates lately (the last 2 years).

ps:i used to love cgx , but after 1 day with p96 i forgot cgx but that doesnt mean its better or worse , just that its really good (both) but i always missed things like MEMORY /FREE/*USE etc...

[jonssonj]

Hello!

Is the 8MB limit a hardware limit or is it a Software limit? I mean is it possible that I can use more than 8MB with Warpos+Warp3d in a future software update or in OS4?

/Jörgen

[lempkee]

software , as it works in 68k mode FINE! ..

and yes os4 might change it or has but i aint allowed to talk about it (i am a betatester)

[CU_AMiGA]

Dude! You can pick up Blizzardvision really cheap now, i paid only £30 for mine. They are excellent cards, even if lempkee hate them (joke!) they are still good.

[lempkee]

get a mediator and u will love yerself for dooing so

bvision is too expensive new and to be quite honest i would say even if u found one for 30 quid doesnt make it a bargin :-) , but hell its better than nothing!

[CU_AMiGA]

Don't listen to that fox! A Blizzardvision is far more stable than the mediator route! A friend of mine has got a setup, and his machine constantly freezes when the graphic drivers are in, but when they are out, it all works! :-) God only bloody know what would happen if i got one, i have enough problems of my own at the moment. It would be a choatic mess.

@lempkee,

Any news on your PPC?

[x56h34]

Grex is not THAT bad. If you own a BPPC, it's not a bad choice as you will pay less $$$, and still have a fast system capable of RTG graphics, 16bit sound, 10mbit ethernet, etc. True, if you want to pay more, then Mediator is a better choice, but Grex is a very nice entry level PCI busboard. I used to have Grex and I sold it when it was still competing with Mediator for the #1 place, and it worked just fine, but as Lempkee said, support was not as good as with Mediator, so I decided to sell and later switch. Probably the main reason was the lack of USB support. So in conclusion, if you have the money then by all means pick the Mediator, but if you have a rev. 2 BPPC (unfortunately required) and little $$$ to spend, Grex @ 80EUR or so is a steal.