»

[Morley]

@former borders inside the EU

As most of the people discussing here seems to be from the wrong side of the atlantic, I'll pass some real facts on EU and the borders between them.
Most EU countries today have 100% open borders, it is even illegal to perform any passport ie. check on the border. This is actually a part of the EU called the Schengen-deal, which I believe Britain isn't a part of. Correct me if I'm wrong. Only country left in former western europe today without open borders is Switzerland. (+England perhaps, I dunno cause that's the only place i haven't been in Europe).
In May this year a whole lot of former east-european countries will join the EU, most significant is Poland, The Baltic states, Hungary +++

Driving through continental Europe in a car is also 110%painless, no borderchecks at all (but Switzerland..). That's the fact.

[redrumloa]

hm,
remember Oklahoma bombing?

What does that have to do with price of milk? Every country has it's own home grown weirdos.

[Glaucus]

Thank you Morley, I forgot about the Schengen border agreament.

@Tigger, I hope the above was clear enough for you. I took the effort to quote the important parts here:

Most EU countries today have 100% open borders, it is even illegal to perform any passport ie. check on the border. This is actually a part of the EU called the Schengen-deal, which I believe Britain isn't a part of. Correct me if I'm wrong. Only country left in former western europe today without open borders is Switzerland. (+England perhaps, I dunno cause that's the only place i haven't been in Europe).

...Plus I found this article usefull to me: Schengen information for travellers.

Border checks on travellers have been abolished in all traffic between Schengen States. As from 25 March 2001, border checks will therefore be abolished also in traffic between Finland and the other Nordic countries and in traffic between these countries and the previous signatories to the Schengen Agreement.

In passenger traffic crossing the external borders of the Schengen territory, all Member States apply a uniform procedure of border checks.

For the purposes of the Schengen Agreement, traffic crossing the external borders means traffic which crosses the land border or the sea border between a country which is a signatory to the Schengen Agreement and a country outside the Agreement. Traffic crossing the external borders also means flight traffic arriving from a country outside the Schengen Agreement to an airport of a Schengen State.

So it does appear that driving from EU state to EU state (although some EU states may still not be part of that agreament) is as simple as driving from province to province. I suppose I could take this opportunity to fill you in on some wonderful parting gifts from our dear friend Red, but I'll rise above that and spare you the humility. 8-)

- Mike

[the_leander]

Morley wrote:
@former borders inside the EU

As most of the people discussing here seems to be from the wrong side of the atlantic, I'll pass some real facts on EU and the borders between them.
Most EU countries today have 100% open borders, it is even illegal to perform any passport ie. check on the border. This is actually a part of the EU called the Schengen-deal, which I believe Britain isn't a part of. Correct me if I'm wrong. Only country left in former western europe today without open borders is Switzerland. (+England perhaps, I dunno cause that's the only place i haven't been in Europe).
In May this year a whole lot of former east-european countries will join the EU, most significant is Poland, The Baltic states, Hungary +++

Driving through continental Europe in a car is also 110%painless, no borderchecks at all (but Switzerland..). That's the fact.

Britain does still have border checks on its ports and airports, also the channel tunnel. The last time I went through europe was in 1994, but even then all that was needed was a quick glance at our passports, litterally, the guy looked at the Country of Origin, and left it at that. That they don't even need even that cursory glance however doesn't surprise me, heh, it might even shave off as much as... 10 seconds going though boarders

[DFergATL]

As an American what worries me the most is that Al-Queda has repeatedly said that new attacks on American soil are coming. If this is true and they are stupid enoough to do it between now and next election. Then Bush would probably win by a landslide. Americans, in general, think that Bush is doing well on the "War on Terror", mainly because he says the things most Americans want to here. Not necessarly the truth but that doesn't seem to be in Mr. Bush's vocabulary. If an other terror attack comes before we can vote him out of office. Everyone will conviently forget all the lies, bad policy making and downright illeagel things that he has done and that will be that. I wonder how hard it is to immigrate out of the US insted of into?

[Speelgoedmannetje]

redrumloa wrote:

What does that have to do with price of milk? Every country has it's own home grown weirdos.

Shout that in the ears of Fade, since he thinks terrorists only come from outside the US.

[aardvark]

I wonder how hard it is to immigrate out of the US insted of into?

Well, there are standards to be met, but you could get info here.
Generally we welcome immigrants and sometimes you may not even realize you're out of the states. :-

There _are_ differences though. Cooler climate not being the least of them.
-Political discourse very different
-guns frowned upon (except hunting types) and more regulated
-medicare is the norm
-taxes are higher (mostly to pay for above)
-our governments don't like to run deficits (also see above)
-less militaristic

Fluffy and Glaucus could probably add a few points, also angrybrit (but I'm not sure he'd be happy anywhere )

[T_Bone]

> I wonder how hard it is to immigrate out of the US insted of into?

http://www.escapeartist.com

http://www.escapeartist.com/efan/efan.htm (semi annual print magazine)

Everything the budding expatriot and tax freedom seeker (and possible refugee) needs to know can be found here. :-P

Ever wanted to pack up and leave? Possibly somewhere you could live completely tax free and completely hidden? And do so cheaply? This place should be your first stop for information and contacts.

[Wilse]

@Tig:

When I crossed the US/Canadian border, I was subjected to
heavy handed search then charged $6 by a guard who could only
be described as a {bleep} and I don't mean The War Against Terror, it was long before that.

Footage of the US/Mexico border doesn't paint it as any
walk in the park either.

Conversely, in fifteen years of regular crossing of EU
borders, I've had my pockets checked a couple of times.

So I don't know what you base your claims on but in my,
admittedly limited experience, they are absurd.

[aardvark]

Um, well yes Canada Customs are a bunch of fascists, but that's all part of the cat and mouse game to smuggle things into Canada without paying taxes on them. :-D

[Tigger]

Wilse wrote:
@Tig:

When I crossed the US/Canadian border, I was subjected to
heavy handed search then charged $6 by a guard who could only
be described as a {bleep} and I don't mean The War Against Terror, it was long before that.


Footage of the US/Mexico border doesn't paint it as any
walk in the park either.

Conversely, in fifteen years of regular crossing of EU
borders, I've had my pockets checked a couple of times.

So I don't know what you base your claims on but in my,
admittedly limited experience, they are absurd.

I used to live in New York, so I have driven across several times, last time I was in Canada was for the Toronto show, we flew in and flew out and I didnt have my passport which freaked Lee & Wayne out, but there was no issue. I'll be driving from Seattle to Anchorage the end of May and early June we'll see what we see then, but I'm pretty sure I'll find it pretty much how I did last time I drove the border. At the last San Diego show, Kermit, me, Jeff White, and several others walked across the border into mexico, (Just what we used to call Zoo gates on the way in, no guards) and then we took a taxi to a restaurant had some good beer and better food, took the taxi back and then walked back across the border, showing our drivers licenses. Again thats not what I have experienced driving in Europe (though you guys are saying that has changed at least at points), and definitely not what I experienced at the worlds worst airport (ie Charles De Gaulle).
-Tig