Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?  (Read 868 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nick_66Topic starter

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by Nick_66
Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« on: July 24, 2017, 02:12:35 PM »
Hi all,

I have a external 5.25" diskdrive which I can connect on the diskdrive port on the back of my A1200.

When I boot my A1200 this drives pops up as a DF1: ????

On the back of the drive there are a couple of switches which allows me to select the drive number and switch between 40 or 80 tracks.

When I try to format a 5.25" floppy I get an error: #21

Is it possible to read PC DOS floppies with this drive?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2017, 02:37:09 PM »
Yes, but only 360K / double density. (assuming it is the Amiga model A1020 drive).

http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/damigas2.html
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 02:39:23 PM by Oldsmobile_Mike »
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 05:44:20 PM »
If it is an Amiga external 5.25 inch drive, then it should be set to 80 tracks for 720K floppies, 40 for 360K floppies.

High Density (1.2MB floppies) generally age the worst, they have the thinnest magnetic layers. So even if the drive inside the case has been replaced and is compatible, chances are the floppy would be blank.

Remember, to read the data you would have to setup PC0 or PC1 mountlist file in Devs, to use the right file system (CrossDOS) when reading from or writing to the drive.

Or plug one into a CBM Bridgeboard, which is another way of connecting them to an Amiga, but not on an A1200.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:49:31 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 01:42:32 AM »
Quote from: Nick_66;828635
Hi all,

I have a external 5.25" diskdrive which I can connect on the diskdrive port on the back of my A1200.

When I boot my A1200 this drives pops up as a DF1: ????

On the back of the drive there are a couple of switches which allows me to select the drive number and switch between 40 or 80 tracks.

When I try to format a 5.25" floppy I get an error: #21

Is it possible to read PC DOS floppies with this drive?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


I have an unbranded 5.25" drive on my A1200 and I wrote this mount file

For PC1 with info set at C:Mount Activate=1 Unit=1 [ thats the info file ]
PC1 in DOSDrivers Devs
FileSystem = L:CrossDOSFileSystem
Device=mfm.device
Unit=2
Flags=1
Surfaces=2
BlocksPerTrack=9
Reserved=1
Interleave=0
LowCyl=0
HighCyl=39
Buffers=20
BuffMemType=1
StackSize=600
Priority=5
Glovec=-1
DosType=0x4D534400
Mount=1

I have it switched on and with 80 track

I tend to use Double Sided Double Density. I can read all my PC DOS disks no problem. I also have the 1060 hooked up to the A1000 so I read PC disks on that machine also. My Checkmate also has 5.25 floppy drive and thats running 2.04. On the 1200 in the main room I only have a 5.25" drive as an external and it runs IFF anim as a kinda screen saver most of the time. I actually prefer the 5.25" drive as I use as a general drive. Floppies last a lot longer than people would have you believe. I have about six drives connected to everything from VICs, C64s and C128s here and they all work without fault. I use a disk head cleaner when I've used an old degraded disk and clogged the head. Another trick is to simply turn the unit upsidedown and back the right way. Works a charm on one drive I have.

I move the 5.25" drive around from machine to machine and use it quite regularly. The trick as I keep saying here is to get your kit working and keep running it. It only degrades through lack of use. Seriously. I have a 1571 hooked up to a C64C mucking around with Simons Basic and it playing up something dreadful when I first used it but after continuous daily use works without fault. Reads and runs all my GEOS stuff no issue. I have a pair of 1570s on another C64 and they also run daily without fault.

So if you do get the drive working keep it oiled by using regularly and it'll keep working.

I recently fitted a 5.25 drive to an IBM PC/1 and runs without fault. Allows me to create DOS disks and the like for the 1060 Sidecar. Amazing that all the manuals were still online and I was able to configure the many jumpers to get the unit working. Great tool. The 5.25" lives on .

Offline agami

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 320
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by agami
    • Twitter
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 02:20:11 AM »
Maybe it's just me, but there's something so computery about the 5.25" floppy. Something about this thin sheath of plastic, with its label in the top left resembling a stamp on an envelope, as if I am somehow posting a letter to the computer when I slide it into the drive slot. Silky smooth and near silent as it enters, displaying a higher degree of elegance and purpose than a 3.5" disk and the clunk of the drive as it goes in (unless it's a Mac). And don't get me started on the anti-climax of inserting an SD card.

Like the comeback of vinyl, I wish someone would come up with a new removable recording medium that looked and felt like a 5.25" floppy, but would fit modern data requirements and be able to store several hundreds of GB.
---------------AGA Collection---------------
1) Amiga A4000 040 40MHz, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative PCI128, Fast Ethernet, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
2) Amiga A1200 040 25MHz, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, IDEfix, PCMCIA WiFi, slim slot load DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
3) Amiga CD32 + SX1, OS 3.1
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 05:47:42 PM »
Personally, I kinda like the clunk of a 3.5" drive, and the similar sound of a ZIP drive.
Plus both have media that will fit in your shirt pocket (as long as you're not using a pocket protector).
It's the ultimate in geek.

USB and SD cards? Great for massive storage, but zero tactile appeal.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Fats

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 672
    • Show only replies by Fats
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2017, 08:22:49 PM »
Quote from: agami;828667
Maybe it's just me, but there's something so computery about the 5.25" floppy.

Good old times when floppy disks were still floppy...
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 08:50:41 PM by Fats »
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 09:35:45 PM »
Quote from: agami;828667
Like the comeback of vinyl, I wish someone would come up with a new removable recording medium that looked and felt like a 5.25" floppy, but would fit modern data requirements and be able to store several hundreds of GB.
There were multiple approaches to design such media, for example ZIP (100MB back then), which died due to reliability issues, JAZ, which died for the same reason, and DVD-RAM, which had rather slow access time and little market penetration.

I experiented with ZIP and DVD-RAM, and while the former still works (first generation high-quality drive) but is too small to be of any practical use today, I had never success with the latter due to many issues with the file system implementation under linux. Frankly, it was only half as useful as it could have been, and I found USB-sticks much faster, more convenient and a lot more reliable than any removable medium that requires some sort of mechanical interaction with the player device (such as rotating the disk).
 

Offline whabang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 7270
    • Show only replies by whabang
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 07:56:56 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;828728
There were multiple approaches to design such media, for example ZIP (100MB back then), which died due to reliability issues, JAZ, which died for the same reason, and DVD-RAM, which had rather slow access time and little market penetration.

I experiented with ZIP and DVD-RAM, and while the former still works (first generation high-quality drive) but is too small to be of any practical use today, I had never success with the latter due to many issues with the file system implementation under linux. Frankly, it was only half as useful as it could have been, and I found USB-sticks much faster, more convenient and a lot more reliable than any removable medium that requires some sort of mechanical interaction with the player device (such as rotating the disk).
LS-120 was a nice one too. But yeah; the capacity is simply to low to be of any use today.
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline mark_k

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 70
    • Show only replies by mark_k
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2017, 01:33:08 PM »
Quote from: Nick_66;828635
I have a external 5.25" diskdrive which I can connect on the diskdrive port on the back of my A1200.

When I boot my A1200 this drives pops up as a DF1: ????

On the back of the drive there are a couple of switches which allows me to select the drive number and switch between 40 or 80 tracks.

When I try to format a 5.25" floppy I get an error: #21

Is it possible to read PC DOS floppies with this drive?
Sounds like you have a third-party 5.25" drive, not a Commodore A1020. In a way that's good, because with the switch set to 80 tracks it should work just like a normal 3.5" drive; it should be recognised by the system and you can format (DSDD) 5.25" disks to 880KB just like a 3.5" disk.

For initial testing, see whether you can reliably format double-density 5.25" disks and e.g. DiskCopy a 3.5" Amiga disk to them.

For reading PC floppy disks (160KB/180KB/320KB/360KB, double-density 40 tracks) you can use CrossDOS. You might need to set the appropriate Flags value in your mount file to tell CrossDOS to double-step the heads. That's because in 80-track mode it has to step heads twice to move to the next track of a 40-track disk.

I don't recommend using your drive with the switch set to 40-track mode. Also, the drive won't work with high density disks, so make sure you're not using those.
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2017, 09:06:29 PM »
Quote from: agami;828667
Maybe it's just me, but there's something so computery about the 5.25" floppy. Something about this thin sheath of plastic, with its label in the top left resembling a stamp on an envelope, as if I am somehow posting a letter to the computer when I slide it into the drive slot. Silky smooth and near silent as it enters, displaying a higher degree of elegance and purpose than a 3.5" disk and the clunk of the drive as it goes in (unless it's a Mac). And don't get me started on the anti-climax of inserting an SD card.

Like the comeback of vinyl, I wish someone would come up with a new removable recording medium that looked and felt like a 5.25" floppy, but would fit modern data requirements and be able to store several hundreds of GB.


In the post yesterday I received a fresh copy of CP/M for the C128. Machine boots just fine with the new disk. Never anticipated anything otherwise. For me it is the whole locking the disk into place and working it. Great tool I have to say. I have twin drives on the Apple and BBC and whilst the BBC works without fault I have to use a small postcard under the floppy on the Apple to get it to work. Bit of a fiddle but fine all the same. On the Checkmate the drive has illuminating LED showing the tracks speed. They truly are a wonderful bit of retro magic.

Offline dovegrace

  • Committed Git
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 202
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by dovegrace
    • http://dovegrace.blogspot.com
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2017, 09:53:47 PM »
Quote from: agami;828667
Maybe it's just me, but there's something so computery about the 5.25" floppy. Something about this thin sheath of plastic, with its label in the top left resembling a stamp on an envelope, as if I am somehow posting a letter to the computer when I slide it into the drive slot.


Lol, I suppose an 8" floppy (or cassette) would be like mailing a parcel?  :D
A1200: 50mhz GVP Jaws II+, OS 3.1, 32mb Fast, 1gb HD, Indivision MKIICR, PCMCIA network
A4000D: stock 030/25, OS 3.9, 16mb Fast, 1gb HD, Picasso II, Ariadne II, IOExtender
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 04:07:21 PM »
Hi

My 5.25" plastic disk box arrived today. To my surprise inside was a 5.25" disk with MS-DOS written on the label. So I hot footed to the A1200 in the next room with the external 5.25" drive and discovered that on the disk was MS-DOS v2.12 with the following files. IBMB10.COM - IBMDOS.COM and IMOUSE.BOO. On the side is a label with a list of disks that use to be in the box. Shame they are not there, but hey, I wasn't expecting a disk in the box anyway.

Turns out that v2.12 was a special version written for the OEM version for the TI Professional in 1983/1984 or Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer (PPC)

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=472

All of that gleaned from reading a 5.25" disk on the humble Amiga using an external 5.25" drive and CrossDOS.

So you see... you can read DOS based 5.25" disks on an Amiga external drive and it really doesn't have to be an Amiga drive.

scuzz

Offline LoadWB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2901
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by LoadWB
Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 05:16:46 PM »
Quote from: scuzzb494;828809
Turns out that v2.12 was a special version written for the OEM version for the TI Professional in 1983/1984 or Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer (PPC)

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=472


If possible, I would appreciate an image of that disk.
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 01:34:40 AM »
Quote from: LoadWB;828811
If possible, I would appreciate an image of that disk.

I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

Hi again.. How do I create an image of a 5.25" floppy. Silly question.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 01:46:44 AM by scuzzb494 »