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Offline curtisTopic starter

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CF vs. SD
« on: April 12, 2017, 10:59:55 PM »
So, I've got my A2000 running pretty smoothly with a generic IDE CF adapter with a SCSI to IDE bridge configuration and decided I needed some sort of backup system and picked the SCSI2SD board.

Well, it got in and now I'm wondering which would be best as my primary "hard drive" and which would best serve as the backup.

How much speed am I losing by having the CF adapter running through the bridge as opposed to the SCSI2SD?

Is it even enough to be noticeable?
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Offline giZmo350

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Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 11:20:35 PM »
@Curtis....

Since I'm still trying to come up with a reliable solution for an OS3.9 HDD, I'm very interested in your outcome.

What SCSI adapter are you using?
Have you tested the speed thru the SCSI to IDE bridge? It would be good to know this.

Which SCSI to IDE bridge did you install, AmigaKit, ACard, other, manufacturer?

Did you get the SCSI2SD V6.0 board? There's a guy on EAB that measured 1.85 MB/sec using an A2091. After he applied the 14MHz hack to the A2091 he now gets 2.4 MB/sec consistently. Not too shabby.
BTW, did you use the new GUI to configure your SCSI2SD?

Here's the kicker.... will both of these HDD adapters be recognizable from the Emergency Repair Disk (ERD) floppy? That's the big MUST, unless you're using some magical backup solution that you can restore a bootable backup to your SYS partition, in my case anyway.

Let us know how you get on please. :)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 08:25:12 AM by gizmo350 »
A500: 2MB Chip, 8MB Fast, IndiECS, MiniMegi, IDE4ZorroII on Z-500, KS1.3/KS3.1, WB3.1&BWB
 
A2000HD: 2MB Chip, 128MB Fast, P5:Blizz 2060@50MHz, PCD-50B/4GBCF, XSurf100, RapidRoad, IndiECS, Matze RTG, MiniMegi, CD-RW, SunRize AD516, WB3.9
 
A1200: 2MB Chip, 64MB Fast, 4GBCF, GVP Typhoon 030 @40MHz w/FPU, Subway USB, EasyNet Ethernet, Indi AGA MKI, FastATA MK-IV, Internal Slim CD/DVD-RW, WB3.5

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Offline Acill

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 05:36:51 AM »
I use an Acard in my 4000T on my CSPPC scsi controller and get 34 a second through it using a 64MB IDE DOM (Disk on Module). After all the other choices and fighting with SCSI drives, scsi2sd and CF adapters on A4000T IDE this was by far the fastest.
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Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 07:03:28 AM »
Quote from: curtis;824443
How much speed am I losing by having the CF adapter running through the bridge as opposed to the SCSI2SD?

Try to measure the speed you have right now. I get 1.2MB/sec on the SCSI2SD v5, and 2.4MB/sec for the SCSI2SD v6, both connected to the 2060 on-board SCSI.

For the v6, unfortunately synchronous SCSI does not work, so the "fastest possible" speed option does not provide a stable system. The v5 was always rock-stable.
 

Offline Robbie

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Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 10:02:34 AM »
Whilst the V5 SCSI2SD is stable and reliable for me, i upgraded it a while back to the latest firmware and it is now incredibly slow. I'm using it on an Apollo 2030 which I know is a rubbish controller anyway, but it's annoying that I upgraded the firmware to achieve a slower speed, we're talking...200kb/s (booting takes an age) and the older firmware versions don't seem to be available anymore.
 

Offline Acill

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 02:14:40 PM »
Get an ACARD 7720 (or a 7722 if you know how to desolder and reflash the ROM) and use a small IDE DOM with it. Its an awesome combo.

Here is my setup, NOTE!! I desoldered the IDE header from the other side of the board and relocated to the front and switch to pins from a socket so I could use this DOM on the header directly. The 7722 is also reflashed with the ROM from a 7720 so I can use it with hard drives and not only CD/DVD-ROM like the 7722 is locked for, and is why the 7722 is a lot cheaper.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 02:19:29 PM by Acill »
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Offline Motormouth

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 11:42:15 PM »
Quote from: Robbie;824465
Whilst the V5 SCSI2SD is stable and reliable for me, i upgraded it a while back to the latest firmware and it is now incredibly slow. I'm using it on an Apollo 2030 which I know is a rubbish controller anyway, but it's annoying that I upgraded the firmware to achieve a slower speed, we're talking...200kb/s (booting takes an age) and the older firmware versions don't seem to be available anymore.


mmmmmm.... I put the v4.7 firmware on my V5a, now I am getting 1MB/sec from my unaccelerated A500 with GVP HD8+ and 8 megs of fast ram.  I think this is up from 800kBytes/sec for an older firmware (maybe something like v4.2)
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 11:57:35 PM »
I have CF and SD in Mechy SCSI card readers on both my A500 and A2000.  Haven't run any speed tests in a while but from what I recall the CF was faster than the SD.  This is about the most direct "apples to apples" comparison one would be able to do.  Although there's so many variables involved in this question - the make and performance characteristics of the card, they type of interface used, I imagine the file system would affect performance, how many adapters are required between the devices...  Good luck! :lol:

This thread reminds me that I've still got a 2091 sitting on my shelf, halfway done with the 14MHz hack.  Maybe one of these years I'll get around to finishing it!  :rofl:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
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Offline giZmo350

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Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 12:09:18 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;824500
I have CF and SD in Mechy SCSI card readers on both my A500 and A2000.

Schnykies! I keep forgetting I have a Mech SCSI reader in my A590! I need to move this to my A2000! :lol: Hey Mike, can I PM you later to get how you created the mount lists for this? Do all the card slots show up with an ERD when they have cards in them? Is the Mech reader the only HDD device in your A2K? This would be perfect for OS and SYS B/U if they do. :)

Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;824500
This thread reminds me that I've still got a 2091 sitting on my shelf, halfway done with the 14MHz hack.  Maybe one of these years I'll get around to finishing it!  :rofl:

Halfway? LOL.... Git 'er done! :roflmao: Actually, I have one of these too... I'm one to talk!

Acill's setup looks pretty sweet too! Acill, ever think about selling these pre-made up as a kit?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 12:25:14 AM by gizmo350 »
A500: 2MB Chip, 8MB Fast, IndiECS, MiniMegi, IDE4ZorroII on Z-500, KS1.3/KS3.1, WB3.1&BWB
 
A2000HD: 2MB Chip, 128MB Fast, P5:Blizz 2060@50MHz, PCD-50B/4GBCF, XSurf100, RapidRoad, IndiECS, Matze RTG, MiniMegi, CD-RW, SunRize AD516, WB3.9
 
A1200: 2MB Chip, 64MB Fast, 4GBCF, GVP Typhoon 030 @40MHz w/FPU, Subway USB, EasyNet Ethernet, Indi AGA MKI, FastATA MK-IV, Internal Slim CD/DVD-RW, WB3.5

Surfing The Web With AMIGA Is Fun Again!
 

Offline Motormouth

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 12:41:37 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;824500
I have CF and SD in Mechy SCSI card readers on both my A500 and A2000.  Haven't run any speed tests in a while but from what I recall the CF was faster than the SD.  This is about the most direct "apples to apples" comparison one would be able to do.  Although there's so many variables involved in this question - the make and performance characteristics of the card, they type of interface used, I imagine the file system would affect performance, how many adapters are required between the devices...  Good luck! :lol:

This thread reminds me that I've still got a 2091 sitting on my shelf, halfway done with the 14MHz hack.  Maybe one of these years I'll get around to finishing it!  :rofl:

I love my Mechy readers, but I was never able to get SD working in them,  I was able to get lun 0 with CF in pcmcia adapter to work and lun 1 CF in CF slot too work.
 

Offline Acill

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 01:11:44 AM »
Quote from: gizmo350;824501

Acill's setup looks pretty sweet too! Acill, ever think about selling these pre-made up as a kit?


It would be expensive and I wouldnt make anything at all on them, but I would gladly build them for a small fee if the parts were sent in as long as time permits. I have been gone so dang much for work, currently in Japan again until the 29th.
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Offline Motormouth

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 04:34:36 AM »
Quote from: Acill;824476
Get an ACARD 7720 (or a 7722 if you know how to desolder and reflash the ROM) and use a small IDE DOM with it. Its an awesome combo.

Here is my setup, NOTE!! I desoldered the IDE header from the other side of the board and relocated to the front and switch to pins from a socket so I could use this DOM on the header directly. The 7722 is also reflashed with the ROM from a 7720 so I can use it with hard drives and not only CD/DVD-ROM like the 7722 is locked for, and is why the 7722 is a lot cheaper.


@Acill  I was looking at these on ebay.  You post clears things up...  
So how do you do the flash from 7722 to 7720?  The Block of six pins in the upper right corner?
 

Offline curtisTopic starter

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Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 10:10:03 PM »
Well, didn't do any stop watch or benchmark tests, but after trying things it seems the SCSI2SD is just a bit faster so will probably go with that as my primary and rig the CF with the ACard 7720 adapter as my backup.

Now to get something rigged up for the mounting.  Durham makes a nice front plate, but the danged thing doesn't have any mounting holes!  What were they thinking?  Just going to let it flop around in the case?

Oh well, the mad hacker strikes again!
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 12:34:46 AM »
Quote from: gizmo350;824501
Schnykies! I keep forgetting I have a Mech SCSI reader in my A590! I need to move this to my A2000! :lol: Hey Mike, can I PM you later to get how you created the mount lists for this? Do all the card slots show up with an ERD when they have cards in them? Is the Mech reader the only HDD device in your A2K? This would be perfect for OS and SYS B/U if they do. :)

Hey buddy!  I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't.  As long as your controller supports LUN's and you have HDToolbox properly configured (use the tooltype to show all devices) and the correct file system installed (for example, I have my SD card formatted as FAT32 for transferring files to other devices.  I don't think the ERD would recognize it unless I had the FAT95 file system installed on it).  With those caveats aside, I would think an ERD would be able to show all the cards just fine.  :)

I just went to test it on my A2000 but noticed I have my ERD here at the office but my OS 3.9 CD at home.  Then when I tried to cancel the requester asking for the CD I noticed my mouse wouldn't move.  Looks like my (*@%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!$( coworker bumped my Cocolino with his chair and broke off the connector.  Also my A500 at home needs work - got a Guru-ROM for the GVP controller months ago but now the case doesn't close (because the combined height of the card reader + the Guru-ROM adapter is too high).  Been thinking to replace the card reader with one of those AmigaKit SCSI2SD's... but now I see they're out of stock....  Aaah!  Whine, whine, complain.  Both of my Amiga's need work and I'm too busy helping my girlfriend move and remodeling my bathroom at home to do anything about it.

Also, my PM box is like 99% full again.  :laughing:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Acill

Re: CF vs. SD
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 12:49:05 AM »
Quote from: Motormouth;824509
@Acill  I was looking at these on ebay.  You post clears things up...  
So how do you do the flash from 7722 to 7720?  The Block of six pins in the upper right corner?

You have to get the 7722 I have in my picture. If you look at it you can see a square SST branded ROM chip in the left side. The one you get MUST be this exact one. IBM makes one like this with a flat ROM that I dont know how to reflash. This one in this ebay link is the WRONG one.

http://r.ebay.com/BgHHY3
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