Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030  (Read 2805 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Metalguy66Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 122
    • Show only replies by Metalguy66
    • http://www.rasterline.com
128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« on: January 02, 2015, 03:01:27 AM »
Hi guys. Been a while since I posted on here. I just hacked my CSA Derringer to use a 128meg 72pin SIMM. Thought I'd do a quick write-up for other Derringer owners.

1.)Remove Derringer from the machine.

2.)Remove 68030 from socket (you will be soldering to the back of the 68030 socket pins, so you wouldn't wanna risk heating on the CPU, itself.. Anywayze.. Remove it..

3.)Remove any SIMM that may be in the SIMM socket.

4.)Find U17 on the top side of the board, its located in between the CPU and the SIMM.

5.)Lift pins 12, 13, and 14 of U17 and solder 3 wires, one to each lifted pin. Make these wires about 10-15cm long for now, and carefully run them through the hole (see photo).



6.) turn the derringer board upside down and find pin 29 of the SIMM socket.

7.) Get a 27ohm resistor and solder one leg of it to pin 29 of the SIMM socket.  Solder the other leg of the resistor to the wire that goes to pin 12 of U17.

8.) Solder the other 2 wires that go to pins 13 and 14 of U17 to pins A4(A28) and B4(A29) of the back of the 68030 socket.



9.) Reinstall the 68030 CPU and SIMM back into the Derringer's sockets.

The SIMM you need is actually 32meg x 32/36 (128megs total).

From the factory, the Derringer can use SIMMs of up to 8meg x 32/36 (32megs total).
Adding the RA11 address line gets us 4x more memory.

I got my 128meg SIMM from Mech of a4000t.com



10.) Install the derringer in the AMIGA.

11.) Boot up the AMIGA. If it doesn't boot, you screwed something up and it isn't my fault.

12.) Get this archive: http://aminet.net/util/boot/addmem301.lha

13.) Uncompress the archive and copy the addmem command to your c: directory on your system boot drive.

14.) Add the following 3 commands to your S:Startup-sequence right after the D3 command. Here's what mine looks like:

Code: [Select]
c:D3 >NIL: dram drom -mv -ms
c:Addmem >NIL: $18000000 $1A000000 32bit
c:Addmem >NIL: $28000000 $2A000000 32bit
c:Addmem >NIL: $38000000 $3A000000 32bit
c:caches >NIL: +i +d


The D3 command is the normal Derringer command that adds the 32megs, relocates the ROM & vector tables, etc. to 32bit fastram.

The Addmem command here is adding 3 additional 32meg chunks of 32bit ram to the OS's free memory list, at the specified ranges.

The caches command just turns on the 68030 instruction & data caches.

Ok. So that's all there is. It works like a charm for me. If it works for you, great. If not, it ain't my fault.

"You mess with your hardware, you take your chances."

Seeya!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 06:34:51 PM by Metalguy66 »
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.
 

Offline Methuselas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2205
    • Show only replies by Methuselas
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 03:57:25 AM »
Are you still living in H-Town? How are you and Fatima doing? Anyway, I have a Fraken500 I need to get to you, to see if we can't clean it up a bit. :)
\'Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation.\' - Bruce Lee

\'No, sorry. I don\'t get my tits out. They\'re not actually real, you know? Just two halves of a grapefruit...\' - Miki Berenyi

\'Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.\' - Dark Helmet :roflmao:

\'And for future reference, it might be polite to ask someone if you can  quote them in your signature, rather than just citing them to make a  sales pitch.\' - Karlos. :rtf
 

Offline Metalguy66Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 122
    • Show only replies by Metalguy66
    • http://www.rasterline.com
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2015, 04:33:19 AM »
Yeah, Martin, I'm still in Houston. PM me.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 05:33:49 AM by Metalguy66 »
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 04:37:39 AM »
Hmm, is that a non sequitur, or an "off thread" post; hard to tell.  It can't be a PM without the P part.  Could it just be an M?

But the hack sounds great!
 

Offline LoadWB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2901
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by LoadWB
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 06:34:54 AM »
Just so happens I have a spare 128MB SIMM on-hand.  I will definitely have to give this a try.  Thanks.
 

Offline pyrre

Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 01:01:54 PM »
@ Metalguy66

two questions:
1 - "lift pins" does that mean disconnecting them from the board?
2 - Will any 128mb simm work?
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline Metalguy66Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 122
    • Show only replies by Metalguy66
    • http://www.rasterline.com
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 01:46:59 PM »
Quote from: pyrre;780914
@ Metalguy66

two questions:
1 - "lift pins" does that mean disconnecting them from the board?


Yep. It means CAREFULLY heat pins 12, 13, and 14 of the tiny SMT TSOP package 74F257AD quad 2-1 multiplexer IC at location U17 on the Derringer PCB. As you heat each pin, carefully lift it away from the PCB using a dental pick or similar instrument until it is bent up and no longer contacting the PCB.

Quote
2 - Will any 128mb simm work?


As I explained, the Derringer's DRAM circuits are designed to deal with a 72pin SIMM of up to 32megs in size, using an arrangement 8megs x 32 data bits. (or 36 with parity, which it doesn't use). There are 11bits of multiplexed (row/column) address lines going to the SIMM to address 8megs. It then uses the various CAS/RAS signals to determine which of the 4 banks of 8megs on the SIMM it is accessing. What this "hack" does is add an ADDITIONAL address line going to the SIMM for a total of 12.. 12bits of multiplexed addressing gives you 32megs x 32bits. 4 "banks" of 32megs is 128megs. This is the way the SIMMs that the Derringer's DRAM access circuits are designed for happen to work.

Now. To answer your question.  Well, there are quite a few weirdo proprietary SIMM standards out there.  As far as I know, by the time you get up to 128megs, there is only one JEDEC standard way to do 128megs. That doesn't mean that some manufacturer hasn't built special purpose 128meg SIMMS for some proprietary application that are arranged completely differently. Best I can tell you is that the SIMM you need is:

128megs (32M x 32/36) 72pin SIMM.

If it says that, it should work, but then it must also physically fit. The one I got is a super-thin low profile SIMM. Mine is in an A500, and the whole arrangement has a keyboard laying right on top of it.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:04:02 PM by Metalguy66 »
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.
 

Offline Metalguy66Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 122
    • Show only replies by Metalguy66
    • http://www.rasterline.com
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 02:43:18 PM »
Quote from: LoadWB;780906
Just so happens I have a spare 128MB SIMM on-hand.  I will definitely have to give this a try.  Thanks.

Yep. The cool thing about this hack is that the 3 pins we are using on U17 are not normally used by the Derringer. So, as long as you follow my instructions and don't accidently mess with anything else, you aren't actually risking anything.

Here's what I mean:



As you can see, the 4th mux channel in U17 is not even hooked up to anything on a stock Derringer (You DO have to lift the pins in order to perform the hack because the Derringer PCB design has the unused inputs grounded.) So, even after this mod is performed, if you simply re-insert a smaller SIMM (up to 32megs doesn't use the RA11 address line) the thing "electrically" returns to the way it was, for all practical purposes. You don't even have to "undo" the physical mod. It will just be running an "RA11 to nowhere" based on the states of A28 and A29 which won't do a darned thing.

Now, a little about HOW it works. As I mentioned before (and you can hopefully see in the schematic above) we have 11 bits of MUXed DRAM addressing. This means 2 separate strobes of 11bit ROW and COLUMN addresses to each bank of DRAM.  These 11 MUXed bits are generated by cpu address bus lines A2 - A23, multiplexed into two sets (ROW & COLUMN) by the 74F257 ICs. So to the AMIGA, we are selecting 8megs by the states of A2 - A23. To get to 32megs, we have some GAL/PAL logic that is controlling when/where the various CAS & RAS strobes are applied and this is based on the state of CPU ADRESS lines A24 and A25 (not shown on schematic because its done inside programmable PAL or GAL logic chips on the Derringer board). This logic also uses CPU address lines A26 and A27 to effectively map the Derringer DRAM to the location $08000000 in the AMIGA's memory address space.

Ok. So what our little hack aims to do is add one more bit of MUXed DRAM addressing and thus go from 32megs to 128megs. This is 2 more bits of CPU addressing. Since I cant change the PAL/GAL logic or what it is doing, A24 - A27 is pretty much off limits. What this hack DOES do is use A28 and A29 which the normal Derringer DRAM access logic doesn't use.

So, what we end up with is 4 sections of RAM, each 32megs in size, but spaced apart in the upper (would be Zorro III) memory space in intervals of 256megs.

So, the first 32meg bank appears at $08000000 to $09FFFFFF (This is where the Derringer's 32bit ram normally appears)

2nd bank appears at $18000000 to $19FFFFFF

3rd bank appears at $28000000 to $29FFFFFF

4th bank appears at $38000000 to $39FFFFFF

This is why we require 3 separate Addmem commands in addition to the normal derringer D3 command, in order to add all the ranges of memory to the system. Amiga OS should absolutely not care that this is the case, and any system legal application should be able to use the ram as contiguous, for all practical purposes.

Whew.. That was a bunch of typing. Hope I didn't make any mistakes or bore you too bad.

Questions? Further Comments? Anyone?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 05:30:31 PM by Metalguy66 »
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.
 

Offline pyrre

Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 06:59:02 PM »
Quote from: Metalguy66;780916

Mine is in an A500, and the whole arrangement has a keyboard laying right on top of it.

Hope this helps.

Yes, this helps a lot.
My derringer is the 50mhz version. and is sitting in an A500+ :)
I have some problems now with space inside the case. as i have a indivision installed. the two boards collide and argues about some space.

I am looking for ideas to solve the problem. (if anyone got any good ideas I'm listening) And i am on the look for any cpu slot ide controller capable of handling a (or two) CF card(s) for HDDrives.
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline Jeff

  • VIP / Donor - Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 1398
    • Show only replies by Jeff
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 07:30:32 PM »
Brilliant!
Happy New Year
 

Offline Metalguy66Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 122
    • Show only replies by Metalguy66
    • http://www.rasterline.com
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2015, 11:56:11 PM »
Quote from: pyrre;780927
Yes, this helps a lot.
My derringer is the 50mhz version. and is sitting in an A500+ :)
I have some problems now with space inside the case. as i have a indivision installed. the two boards collide and argues about some space.


Here is how mine looks



Cant remember what I did to make the indivision ecs fit under it. probably lowered the socket, shortened the standoffs, and relocated any tall components to the other side of the A500+ motherboard.
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 05:04:43 AM »
I have an Indivision in my A500, along with VXL*30 accelerator.  I used a spacer on the CPU socket, it fits fine, also clears the MegaChip I have stuck in the Agnus socket.  Case closes fine, although I do have a square of thin foam insulation between the boards and another between the bottom of the keyboard and the top of the accelerator, just in case.  VXL looks to be about the same size as the Derringer, although I do wish I had a Derringer instead now that this hack is out!  ;)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 05:09:43 AM by Oldsmobile_Mike »
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline delshay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2004
  • Posts: 1009
    • Show only replies by delshay
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2015, 07:20:02 AM »
I was working on something like this,but not for this card. It was a single sided 128MB or 256MB per simm (custom memory module) but I abandoned it about 4 years ago for speed 28ns.

EDIT: release of 40n EDO memory chips cancelled.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 01:02:20 AM by delshay »
-------------
power is nothing without control
 

Offline JanciB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2013
  • Posts: 8
    • Show only replies by JanciB
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2015, 12:15:36 PM »
I will definitely try it. Now i am using 64MB SIMM which D3 detects as 16MB.
The system is stable with it.

Do you think I will get 64MB with this hack?

The SIMM is single sided with 8 chips on it. The chips are MT 4LC16M4H9-5D.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.net/datasheet-pdf/view/75891/MICRON/MT4LC16M4H9DJ-5.html
 

Offline Metalguy66Topic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 122
    • Show only replies by Metalguy66
    • http://www.rasterline.com
Re: 128megs on a CSA Derringer 030
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2015, 04:01:06 PM »
Quote from: JanciB;780961
I will definitely try it. Now i am using 64MB SIMM which D3 detects as 16MB.
The system is stable with it.

Do you think I will get 64MB with this hack?

The SIMM is single sided with 8 chips on it. The chips are MT 4LC16M4H9-5D.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.net/datasheet-pdf/view/75891/MICRON/MT4LC16M4H9DJ-5.html


Well, it depends actually on how it is getting the 16meg. But like I said, there's no reason not to perform the mod. It won't change the way your derringer works with existing SIMMs. All it does is open the possibilities of using SIMMs that have a full 12bits of base addressing.

Now back to the question of the RAM banking. Best case scenario, you could try several ranges and see which one works.

With a single sided SIMM I would *THINK* that its only using 2 RAS signals, but seeing full 11bits of base addressing and so it's getting 2 banks of 8megs. If that is the case, after the hardware mod is done, you should be able to get 2 banks of 32megs each by doing something like:

Addmem $08000000 $0A000000 checkmem 32bit
Addmem $18000000 $1A000000 checkmem 32bit

-or-

Addmem $08000000 $0A000000 checkmem 32bit
Addmem $28000000 $2A000000 checkmem 32bit

If the simm is wired differently, it could work with the following and get 4 sections of 16megs:

Addmem $08000000 $09000000 checkmem 32bit
Addmem $18000000 $19000000 checkmem 32bit
Addmem $28000000 $29000000 checkmem 32bit
Addmem $38000000 $39000000 checkmem 32bit



The datasheet you linked shows that those chips do have the A11 address line, so I would guess one of the first two scenarios to be the case.

When testing, disable D3 in your s:startup-sequence, so that no 32bit fastram is added to the system at bootup. Then, open a shell and try the above Addmem commands with the checkmem option invoked. If any section of ram isn't going to work, it will return an error message within a few seconds. If it doesn't, the system will appear to be locked up while it tests that section of RAM for several minutes, but eventually, it will return you to the AmigaDOS prompt and add the ram to the system (you'll see "other memory" increase at the top of the workbench screen.) After you've done all your testing, reenable D3 in the s:startup-sequence, plus add an Addmem command for each additional ram bank that D3 doesn't find, and this time, no checkmem option. (D3 "finds" the first bank, located at $08000000)

Hope this helps. Good luck![/b]
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 04:16:30 PM by Metalguy66 »
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.