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Offline AAACHIPSETTopic starter

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indivision aga question
« on: October 14, 2013, 02:18:39 PM »
my a1200  is connected to a pc monitor  ..not  sure what its max resolution ..when i run my slide show program  mostly natgeo pics from web  on a program called mystic view  which has a 030 version if i choose  a res  say 800 by 600  its quick etc  ..if i go full screen with a much higher resolution  i get some flickering of the pics ..what is the max resolution the indivisionaga  can do  an can you damage  it or the amiga if you go beyond or try to ?
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Offline TCMSLP

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 02:36:27 PM »
It depends which modes you have installed.  HIGHGFX for example will do 1024x768, there's also an XTREME mode which does 1280x1024 (or similar?).   There's no possibility of damage to your Amiga, although mine does struggle on the higher resolutions due to either a) timing issues or b) overheating (possibly related to caps).
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Offline magnetic

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 02:13:51 AM »
You shouldnt be getting "flickering" its probably because your motherboard is being pushed to much by indy mk2. Its seems alot of Individual products make amiga 1200 boards unstable. I'm lucky you can see my sig it works perfect.

3 things to consider as well

1. In adequate psu

2. Too much heat inside amiga (an internal fan helped some ppl)

3. your cpu card
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Offline NovaCoder

Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 02:22:03 AM »
Hiya,

Every Amiga motherboard is a bit different.

With my set-up I've found that it's only happy at a max resolution of 800x600 (SuperPlus), if I try to go to 1024x768 or 1280x720 then it becomes glitchy after it warms up a bit (maybe 10 mins usage).

Some people have fixed this by installing fans/heat sinks and for some people it works fine without any modifications, like I said all 1200 motherboards are different.

To be honest 1024x768 and 1280x720 is a bit much of AGA, 800x600 is perfect on mine but unfortunately the Mrk2 no longer supports SuperPlus.   I'm currently running mine is PAL 640x512 and 256 colors, if Jens ever adds SuperPlus mode back then I'll switch to 800x600.
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Offline magnetic

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 03:17:11 AM »
I get all modes working even extreme no flickering and with hours of burn in.. from the reading ive done I think its due to rev motherboard and blizzy 1260. If you look for old threads here you can see the pics
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Offline Marcin1982

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 06:33:38 AM »
Look this http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65626

I use indi mk2 non stop with 1024 768 res alls work well , recommend radiator on ALICE chip
 

Offline TCMSLP

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 09:19:55 AM »
I've added heatsinks to most of the ICs (specifically Alice), plus added two fans to the vents along the back (with the remainder of the vents blocked up; I now get a nice through-draft) but still get graphical glitches in the higher resolution modes.  This is a very old video of the problems I experience running the non 15KHz modes before I a) added additional cooling and b) fitted the Indivision AGA;  the problem is now much improved but I still get problems running the higher res modes:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am73Zsn6ntA

Placing a fan directly over Lisa does make a significant improvement so I do believe it's mostly heat related.   I'd be interested to hear if the above glitches are typical of heat and/or failing caps?

I wondered if perhaps failing capacitors meant power regulation (ripple) was worse, causing increased heat?

A friend has recently donated an A1200 - I'm hoping switching motherboards will cure things;  at which point I can then get my own recapped and hopefully resolve the issue.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 09:20:57 AM by TCMSLP »
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Offline som99

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 09:53:43 AM »
I am one of those who needs extra cooling to keep my system stable with the Indivision AGA MK2, I got flickering and crash within minutes after starting the system and some chips was so hot I could barely touch them for more then a few seconds.

But after adding one 40mm fan directly on top of the indy/Lisa and a few on the vents in the top all problems did go away and I never have any problems anymore :)

I use Fractal Design Silent series R2, they are quiet and work well.
 

Offline TCMSLP

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 10:08:22 AM »
som99: How did you mount that above Lisa?  There's not much space between Lisa and the keyboard?

Did you rule out failing caps?   I'm keen to discover (and resolve) the source of the problem, however if it is purely heat related I'd like to hear how you achieved this :)
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Offline som99

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 10:46:14 AM »
Quote from: TCMSLP;750164
som99: How did you mount that above Lisa?  There's not much space between Lisa and the keyboard?

Did you rule out failing caps?   I'm keen to discover (and resolve) the source of the problem, however if it is purely heat related I'd like to hear how you achieved this :)

The Fractal design fans I use are quite thin, but I had to do some simple modifications to fit it and also keep it in place, I was quite happy with the outcome tho :)

If you look at the second picture you see that there are quite decent clearance.



I also recommend people to solder wires as in picture two (it's not done on that picture but you get how it's done), directly from the female DC-plug under the motherboard, I had a slight accident pulling to many amps trough the PCB lanes to the floppy drive when using the floppy cable to power all extra internals and I burned the PCB lanes and had to fix them, no biggie but just a friendly warning :) Also floppy operations might be affected when pulling extra juice from the floppy cable.


As the matter of heat issues, I have soldered new caps and also done the timing fixes as my motherboard is the rev 2B board (I did the timing fix before adding extra cooling since I thought that was the problem) and the same issues appear if I turn the fans off, Lisa gets CRAZY hot and system gets unstable in minutes, and by crazy hot it's to hot to put your finger on for more then a few seconds.

I guess age and natural variations in manufacturing process is to blame, same as on CPU's, two chips, same model same brand even same batch can tolerate different overclocking values.

I would LOVE to hear from others with heat issues, what rev board they have etc to see if particular revs are more affected then others tho. A soon as I get my hands on another rev motherboard I will test that one to.

Edit: If you look at the traces near Paula, you can see two of the repaired PCB lanes.

Edit: After my Amiga 1200 project which I posted all about in my thread here (pics are gone since UG went down and I hosted my pics there) I got contacted by a writer from one of International data groups Swedish IT magazines who did an 4 page article about my project, so the Amiga 1200 got some media attention in 2012 here in Sweden which is always fun :D (if anyone would be interested I could scan the magazine and translate and post it here on amiga.org).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 11:10:39 AM by som99 »
 

Offline TCMSLP

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 11:30:04 AM »
Ah - I'm confusing my chips.  The Indivision fits over Lisa?  In which case, it's Alice that I fitted heatsinks too (Alice was becoming too hot to touch).  I hadn't given much thought to Lisa - I'm surprised fitting a fan over the Indivision makes much difference;  doesn't the socket covering Lisa make it practically air tight?

FYI: 1D4, poorly done timing fixes in place, suspect caps needs replacing
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Offline som99

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 11:44:29 AM »
Quote from: TCMSLP;750172
Ah - I'm confusing my chips.  The Indivision fits over Lisa?  In which case, it's Alice that I fitted heatsinks too (Alice was becoming too hot to touch).  I hadn't given much thought to Lisa - I'm surprised fitting a fan over the Indivision makes much difference;  doesn't the socket covering Lisa make it practically air tight?

FYI: 1D4, poorly done timing fixes in place, suspect caps needs replacing

Yeah the Indivision fits over Lisa, there are 4 holes in the socket of the Indivision and enough air gets down on Lisa to get her much cooler, a really thin copper plate with thermal paste on Lisa could fit under the indivision also which helps a lot.

Please write back and report when caps are replaced!

Alice got quite hot for me to, but Lisa was my biggest issue, but as I also installed 4x 40mm fans at the top grills on my Amiga the airflow in the case kept Alice at a reasonable temperature without any need for any heatsinks, I might install heatsinks on Alice and Paula soon while im doing my external PATA DVD/CD-rom build, to keep them cooler but atm I got no stability issues at all but it wouldn't hurt to give them some love.
 

Offline trydowave

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 12:25:37 PM »
I was looking to go up from 1024 x 768 to 1280 x 1024 but im not sure now after reading this stuff about glitchy graphics.
My Indi 2 also gets quiet hot on top (where lisa is) so I bend my CF over to left so it isn't resting on it.
At 1024 x 768 I can leave it on all day and I get no problems.
 
Will this heat build up shorten my A1200s life span?
 
Cheers
Tony
 
P.s. How did you attach the fan to the Indi and do you think a standard A500 psu will power it? I already have an Indi2 and an ACA1232 plugged into my A1200. I'm thinking about doing this as a precaution. But, if its working fine now do you think its worth it?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 12:33:21 PM by trydowave »
 

Offline som99

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Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2013, 08:48:27 PM »
Quote from: trydowave;750176
I was looking to go up from 1024 x 768 to 1280 x 1024 but im not sure now after reading this stuff about glitchy graphics.
My Indi 2 also gets quiet hot on top (where lisa is) so I bend my CF over to left so it isn't resting on it.
At 1024 x 768 I can leave it on all day and I get no problems.
 
Will this heat build up shorten my A1200s life span?
 
Cheers
Tony
 
P.s. How did you attach the fan to the Indi and do you think a standard A500 psu will power it? I already have an Indi2 and an ACA1232 plugged into my A1200. I'm thinking about doing this as a precaution. But, if its working fine now do you think its worth it?

All heat shortens the life of all chips on all systems, but by how much it's hard to say, I cool everything I have to keep the lifespan longer on old hardware.

I do not know why you would want to run 1280x1024 on AGA tho, XTREME screenmode is to much in WB at least I think so but I guess it's individual. What screenmode do you use for 1024x768? I use HighGFX but I mostly keep my Amiga at 800x600 to keep it snappy :)

How I fitted a fan on my Indivision? Check 4-posts up and you see the picture of it :)

Edit: Almost forgot your power-brick question, The 40mm fans from fractal design uses such a tiny amount of amps so it will be no probem if you aint got problems now :) You even can put a resistor and use the fan on 9v instead of 12v to keep it even quieter and keep the power strain even lower :)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 08:54:31 PM by som99 »
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: indivision aga question
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 11:35:05 PM »
Great photos, makes it very clear how you installed yours, if I had an A1200 I'd probably do the same. ;)
 
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