amiga.org
     
iconAll times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:58 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.

Amiga.org Amiga computer related discussion Amiga Gaming Active games programmers

Amiga Gaming This forum is dedicated to games software and solutions for the Commodore Amiga computer. Need help blowing up pixels? Know of the next gaming revolution? Talk about it here.

View Poll Results: Are you an active Amiga programmer?
Yes! I love my 68k ASM 14 56.00%
yes! I love my my 68k C 16 64.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-21-2013, 11:18 PM   #1
mikrucio
Party Mix '87
Points: 8,667, Level: 62 Points: 8,667, Level: 62 Points: 8,667, Level: 62
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 371
Thumbs up Active games programmers

Hello all

Just trying to get a figure in my head.

How many active programmers among you?
active meaning Amiga 68k.

RAISE HANDS! thanks
mikrucio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 11:44 PM   #2
commodorejohn
VIP / Donor
Points: 11,084, Level: 69 Points: 11,084, Level: 69 Points: 11,084, Level: 69
Activity: 37% Activity: 37% Activity: 37%
 
commodorejohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Posts: 3,152
Blog Entries: 8
Default Re: Active games programmers

I've got a couple different projects in the works, but they've all been back-burnered for a while now. Need to get back on them, sometime...
__________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
commodorejohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 01:16 AM   #3
TheBilgeRat
Defender of the Faith
Points: 9,020, Level: 63 Points: 9,020, Level: 63 Points: 9,020, Level: 63
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
TheBilgeRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dundee, OR
Posts: 1,622
Default Re: Active games programmers

C only for now. Might get interested in Assembler eventually.
TheBilgeRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 02:26 AM   #4
NovaCoder
Premium Member
Points: 10,678, Level: 68 Points: 10,678, Level: 68 Points: 10,678, Level: 68
Activity: 19% Activity: 19% Activity: 19%
 
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,536
Blog Entries: 2
Default Re: Active games programmers

I'm currently trying to port Descent Rebirth to 68k.
__________________
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


AmiWolf AGA, AmiSpear AGA, BOOM AGA, ZDOOM AGA, Odamex AGA, AmiQuake AGA, AmiQuake 2 AGA
NovaCoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 03:08 AM   #5
rewlako
Beginner
Points: 1,638, Level: 23 Points: 1,638, Level: 23 Points: 1,638, Level: 23
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 41
Default Re: Active games programmers

Active programmer? yes
Games programming? no
rewlako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 04:12 AM   #6
nyteschayde
VIP / Donor - Lifetime Member
Points: 11,359, Level: 70 Points: 11,359, Level: 70 Points: 11,359, Level: 70
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 
nyteschayde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Jose, Ca USA
Posts: 444
Send a message via ICQ to nyteschayde Send a message via AIM to nyteschayde Send a message via MSN to nyteschayde Send a message via Yahoo to nyteschayde Send a message via Skype™ to nyteschayde
Default Re: Active games programmers

When work isn't taking every waking moment, I do play around on my various Amigas; almost always in a programming perspective. I admit though that I get mired down in the semantics of trying to modernized my coding environment on the Amiga more than I do in actually producing any code on it.

My most recent attempts were to get objective-c compiling on the Amiga because I got frustrated with working with C strings again. A two day deep dive over nothing. Would love to work on a game but don't have the time at the moment; too busy making Netflix Original Content on the web an awesome place.
nyteschayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:28 AM   #7
TheBilgeRat
Defender of the Faith
Points: 9,020, Level: 63 Points: 9,020, Level: 63 Points: 9,020, Level: 63
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
TheBilgeRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dundee, OR
Posts: 1,622
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyteschayde View Post
When work isn't taking every waking moment, I do play around on my various Amigas; almost always in a programming perspective. I admit though that I get mired down in the semantics of trying to modernized my coding environment on the Amiga more than I do in actually producing any code on it.

My most recent attempts were to get objective-c compiling on the Amiga because I got frustrated with working with C strings again. A two day deep dive over nothing. Would love to work on a game but don't have the time at the moment; too busy making Netflix Original Content on the web an awesome place.
I'm pretty sure C++ compiles on amiga. KArlos would be the guy to ask about that I think.
TheBilgeRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 01:36 PM   #8
SamuraiCrow
Premium Member
Points: 14,392, Level: 77 Points: 14,392, Level: 77 Points: 14,392, Level: 77
Activity: 58% Activity: 58% Activity: 58%
 
SamuraiCrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,103
Blog Entries: 2
Send a message via Yahoo to SamuraiCrow Send a message via Skype™ to SamuraiCrow
Default Re: Active games programmers

I voted C for Amiga for the simple reason that I'll be switching over to AROS 68k as soon as it is practical to do so. The legal gibberish that is going on with regards to OS 3.x is just insane. Not to mention that AROS is still actively developed and has several features that are lacking in the original AmigaOS series.

That said, the code quality of all the 68k compilers I've ever tried is abysmal. If I had the choice, I'd use AmigaE instead of C but the AROS source codes are written in C.
SamuraiCrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 01:45 PM   #9
commodorejohn
VIP / Donor
Points: 11,084, Level: 69 Points: 11,084, Level: 69 Points: 11,084, Level: 69
Activity: 37% Activity: 37% Activity: 37%
 
commodorejohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Posts: 3,152
Blog Entries: 8
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiCrow View Post
That said, the code quality of all the 68k compilers I've ever tried is abysmal. If I had the choice, I'd use AmigaE instead of C but the AROS source codes are written in C.
How's vbcc? I've heard good things about it.
__________________
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
commodorejohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 02:35 PM   #10
TheBilgeRat
Defender of the Faith
Points: 9,020, Level: 63 Points: 9,020, Level: 63 Points: 9,020, Level: 63
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
TheBilgeRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dundee, OR
Posts: 1,622
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
How's vbcc? I've heard good things about it.
I'd love to use it, but its 68020+ only, which I have with no way to display. The only computer I can monitor-ize is the A2000 with a 68010.
TheBilgeRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 03:21 PM   #11
Leffmann
Too much caffeine
Points: 2,687, Level: 31 Points: 2,687, Level: 31 Points: 2,687, Level: 31
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 83
Default Re: Active games programmers

SAS/C 6.58 generates pretty good code. You can even run it on your Mac or PC using AmiTools if cross-development is a must. It has basic C++ support, but no C99.

VBCC is pretty ok, very simple to use and set up. It has C99 support but no C++. It's not meant for 68020+ only, the source code is available so you can compile it to run on an A1000 if you want, or any other computer and operating system for that matter.

Then there's GCC which is very powerful, but has always been a mess to set up and it eats more RAM and CPU.

Last edited by Leffmann; 04-22-2013 at 03:23 PM..
Leffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #12
mikrucio
Party Mix '87
Points: 8,667, Level: 62 Points: 8,667, Level: 62 Points: 8,667, Level: 62
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 371
Default Re: Active games programmers

Great to hear friends!

keep the votes coming!
mikrucio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 03:55 PM   #13
matthey
Cult Member
Points: 7,155, Level: 56 Points: 7,155, Level: 56 Points: 7,155, Level: 56
Activity: 55% Activity: 55% Activity: 55%
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 907
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
How's vbcc? I've heard good things about it.
The 68k code quality is average overall. Vasm is the best 68k peephole optimizing assembler ever and the inline assembler used for many functions is fast but some of the statically linked vclib code and the backend need some attention. I've seen vbcc make optimizations I didn't think a compiler could do and then the next function will make me cry. It is getting better slowly though and there should be a new version out soon according to Frank Wille. There is major fixes in the vbcc compiler and vasm assembler that help with reliability. The beta is working much better on my 68060 Amiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
SAS/C 6.58 generates pretty good code. You can even run it on your Mac or PC using AmiTools if cross-development is a must. It has basic C++ support, but no C99.
SAS/C generated 68k is average to above average really. It's about on par with GCC 3 and vbcc depending on the source. The last versions of GCC 2 were probably the best and may have reached good code generation quality, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
VBCC is pretty ok, very simple to use and set up. It has C99 support but no C++. It's not meant for 68020+ only, the source code is available so you can compile it to run on an A1000 if you want, or any other computer and operating system for that matter.
Vbcc would be slow and require a lot of memory on a 68000. SAS/C or DICE may be better options. An fpga 68000 with plenty of memory and storage might be ok for small projects. An older compiler could be used for creation on a low end Amiga and then compiled with vbcc or GCC later if care is taken to avoid compiler specific code.
matthey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 06:00 PM   #14
NovaCoder
Premium Member
Points: 10,678, Level: 68 Points: 10,678, Level: 68 Points: 10,678, Level: 68
Activity: 19% Activity: 19% Activity: 19%
 
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,536
Blog Entries: 2
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBilgeRat View Post
I'm pretty sure C++ compiles on amiga. KArlos would be the guy to ask about that I think.
Yep this was developed in C++ 68k using gcc v3.4, seems to work ok.


ScummVM RTG
__________________
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


AmiWolf AGA, AmiSpear AGA, BOOM AGA, ZDOOM AGA, Odamex AGA, AmiQuake AGA, AmiQuake 2 AGA
NovaCoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 07:12 PM   #15
EDanaII
Cult Member
Points: 7,882, Level: 59 Points: 7,882, Level: 59 Points: 7,882, Level: 59
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
EDanaII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 569
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyteschayde View Post
When work isn't taking every waking moment, I do play around on my various Amigas; almost always in a programming perspective. I admit though that I get mired down in the semantics of trying to modernized my coding environment on the Amiga more than I do in actually producing any code on it.
That pretty much sums me up too. I actually have several ideas for games I'd like to implement, but then I get distracted by spending time trying to get the code up "up to spec." Then, some other distraction comes along and... there it sits.

And I didn't vote because I prefer C++. I've always hated C.
__________________
Ed.
EDanaII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #16
mikrucio
Party Mix '87
Points: 8,667, Level: 62 Points: 8,667, Level: 62 Points: 8,667, Level: 62
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 371
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDanaII View Post
That pretty much sums me up too. I actually have several ideas for games I'd like to implement, but then I get distracted by spending time trying to get the code up "up to spec." Then, some other distraction comes along and... there it sits.

And I didn't vote because I prefer C++. I've always hated C.
thanks ed, c++ is in the same bucket. please vote!

And what do you mean up to spec?
mikrucio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 08:30 PM   #17
Thorham
Cult Member
Points: 5,589, Level: 48 Points: 5,589, Level: 48 Points: 5,589, Level: 48
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Thorham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Nerd City, Nerderon
Posts: 849
Default Re: Active games programmers

68K all the way C is for the peecee

But... am I active? Not really
Thorham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:57 PM   #18
nyteschayde
VIP / Donor - Lifetime Member
Points: 11,359, Level: 70 Points: 11,359, Level: 70 Points: 11,359, Level: 70
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 
nyteschayde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Jose, Ca USA
Posts: 444
Send a message via ICQ to nyteschayde Send a message via AIM to nyteschayde Send a message via MSN to nyteschayde Send a message via Yahoo to nyteschayde Send a message via Skype™ to nyteschayde
Default Re: Active games programmers

Well, instead of up to spec I should instead say more modernized. I know that also sounds crazy since I mentioned Objective-C and technically it's quite old itself. I program in a lot of languages across the board. I know that I can use C++ on the Amiga. I have a registered copy of Cubic IDE. I also SAS/C 6.58 or whatever the latest C++ capable version is.

I also am one of the fortunate ones to have a working Amiga 1200/PPC that runs OS4.1. That environment is pretty nice. I keep wanting to get myself a NG Amiga so I can really appreciate it.

Mostly though I've been doing a lot of iOS development (Objective C/C++) and HTML/CSS3/JavaScript programming alongside Node.JS. I keep seeing about getting V8 and Node.JS running on the Amiga and then I realize I need up to date versions of dev tools to compile it.

Then I would start down the path of seeing how far I could get. I'd usually make some progress and then rat hole chasing down broken links for libraries and whispers of solutions or knee deep in trying to compile a bunch of GNU tools to get things moving.

Eventually I'd get so lost in my quest to have a modern tool of some sort as seen on another more modern platform that I'd waste what little free time I had to spare. The worst part is usually I could have written everything I wanted in C in the time I wasted seeking "better" tools. :-)

Story of my recent Amiga life.
nyteschayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:08 PM   #19
EDanaII
Cult Member
Points: 7,882, Level: 59 Points: 7,882, Level: 59 Points: 7,882, Level: 59
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
 
EDanaII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 569
Default Re: Active games programmers

Quote:
Well, instead of up to spec I should instead say more modernized. I know that also sounds crazy since I mentioned Objective-C and technically it's quite old itself. I program in a lot of languages across the board. I know that I can use C++ on the Amiga. I have a registered copy of Cubic IDE. I also SAS/C 6.58 or whatever the latest C++ capable version is.
Well, that's pretty much what I mean by "up to spec." Except I end up doing this instead:
Code:
#include <iostream>

#include <proto/dos.h>

#include "GraphicsLibrary.h"
#include "IntuitionLibrary.h"
#include "ScreenBase.h"

struct GfxBase* GfxBase = NULL;
struct IntuitionBase* IntuitionBase = NULL;
struct Library *GadToolsBase = NULL;

ScreenBase screen;

int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {
	try {
		GfxBase = GraphicsLibrary.GetGfxBase( );
		IntuitionBase = IntuitionLibrary.GetIntuitionBase( );

		ScreenBase screen = ScreenBase( );
		screen.open();

		Delay(5 * 50);

		screen.close();
		std::cout << "\nAnd there was much rejoicing...\n";
	}
	catch (SystemLibraryException &error) {
		std::cout << error.Name << " version: " << error.Version << " failed to open";
	}

	IntuitionLibrary.close( );
	GraphicsLibrary.close( );
	GadToolsLibrary.close( );

	return 0;
}
Which, to me, is a lot more elegant than the older, clumsier Amiga way of doing things.

Quote:
Eventually I'd get so lost in my quest to have a modern tool of some sort as seen on another more modern platform that I'd waste what little free time I had to spare. The worst part is usually I could have written everything I wanted in C in the time I wasted seeking "better" tools. :-)
Yep. Me too. Mostly because I lack the knowledge yet of the full Amiga architecture. But then, I'd get pulled away because of work, my (now deceased) father, family, my father's trust or the WWII web site I maintain. So many distractons, so little time.

But this is something I enjoy doing, so I don't consider it time wasted. It's just my way of building appreciation of what was once Amiga.


@ mikrucio

OK, you've talked me into it.

As to "up to spec" see my response to nyteschade. I just like using the more modern coding paradigms...
__________________
Ed.
EDanaII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:43 PM   #20
nyteschayde
VIP / Donor - Lifetime Member
Points: 11,359, Level: 70 Points: 11,359, Level: 70 Points: 11,359, Level: 70
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 
nyteschayde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Jose, Ca USA
Posts: 444
Send a message via ICQ to nyteschayde Send a message via AIM to nyteschayde Send a message via MSN to nyteschayde Send a message via Yahoo to nyteschayde Send a message via Skype™ to nyteschayde
Default Re: Active games programmers

@EDanaII

What libraries/compilers are you using to use C++ that way with the Amiga?
nyteschayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
active , games , programmers

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump