Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Forums
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Problem with memory expansion?  (Read 3624 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrknightTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 152
    • Show only replies by mrknight
Problem with memory expansion?
« on: January 02, 2013, 11:48:10 PM »
Hi,

I bought an Amiga 500 a couple of weeks ago which included a memory expansion in the expansion slot underneath. While running the computer, I got a couple of Guru Meditation errors. Not always, but often enough to become paranoid. I removed the memory expansion and did not get any errors at all. I inserted the memory again and I started getting errors again.

Some of the errors I got:

I got this error when I booted the computer without a floppy in the drive. Not sure, but it might be 'illegal instruction'.
00000004.OOCO1570

And I got this when I was loading a game. The code indicates 'free twice'.
81000009.265F48F1

The memory expansion is of model HE500 and appears to include a clock.

Is this an indication of faulty expansion memory, and if so, how can I do a memory check to verify the integrity of the memory?

Thank you for your help.
Logged
 

Offline Steady

Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 12:07:59 AM »
Hi, the first guru is related to expansion memory (since it has address C01570) and you said it was booting nothing, so that looks suspicious.

Not sure about the second guru. It is a very high address (and not 'HELP'). Not sure why the computer is even looking there. Perhaps it is caused by dodgy expansion memory directing the program off into the never-never.

i.e. the second guru might be caused by dodgy expansion ram, or might not. The first looks very likely to be the expansion.

Someone else might be able to help with a memory check suggestion.
Logged
 

Offline ChaosLord

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 2608
    • Show only replies by ChaosLord
    • http://totalchaoseng.dbv.pl/news.php
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 01:35:19 AM »
Quote from: mrknight;721079
Hi,

I bought an Amiga 500 a couple of weeks ago which included a memory expansion in the expansion slot underneath. While running the computer, I got a couple of Guru Meditation errors. Not always, but often enough to become paranoid. I removed the memory expansion and did not get any errors at all. I inserted the memory again and I started getting errors again.

Some of the errors I got:

I got this error when I booted the computer without a floppy in the drive. Not sure, but it might be 'illegal instruction'.
00000004.OOCO1570

And I got this when I was loading a game. The code indicates 'free twice'.
81000009.265F48F1

The memory expansion is of model HE500 and appears to include a clock.

Is this an indication of faulty expansion memory, and if so, how can I do a memory check to verify the integrity of the memory?

Thank you for your help.

Your clock battery is leaking acid everywhere and destroying the molecular cohesion.
Logged
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 956
    • Show only replies by AmigaClassicRule
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 01:52:13 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;721094
Your clock battery is leaking acid everywhere and destroying the molecular cohesion.

I feel like we are having a star trek conversation when you said "destroying the molecular cohesion." :biglaugh::biglaugh:
Logged
 

Offline ChaosLord

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 2608
    • Show only replies by ChaosLord
    • http://totalchaoseng.dbv.pl/news.php
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 02:17:24 AM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;721097
I feel like we are having a star trek conversation when you said "destroying the molecular cohesion." :biglaugh::biglaugh:


His Neutrinos are leaking too.  And he is now heavily irradiated.  He will probably grow a 3rd eyeball or develop ESP or turn blue or some other mutation any day now. :laugh1:

If he was to reroute power from DF1: DF2: and DF3: into the motherboard then it might start working again.  Or replacing the power supply could fix the problem.   It might be old and weak.
Logged
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline mrknightTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 152
    • Show only replies by mrknight
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 03:55:44 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;721094
Your clock battery is leaking acid everywhere and destroying the molecular cohesion.

Spot on. The battery did leak and is dead. I thought the clock would be usable anyway since I assumed it would be powered from the bus connector when the computer is on. I had a closer look today and it seems like one of the copper lanes is broken due to the battery acid. So I have to fix that and find a replacement battery. But it seems like a PCB mounted battery is expensive compared to what is cost to buy a new memory expansion...

Does anyone know where I can find the specifications and pin layouts for the expansion port? This would help me with further trouble shooting.

Edit: I also tested once more with the memory installed and tried to load a game from an Amiga Power cover disk that requires 1Mb of RAM. I got the following two Guru Meditation (I rebooted between each message):
00000003.00C08510
00000003.00C084F8
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 04:10:15 AM by mrknight »
Logged
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show only replies by Zac67
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 10:43:24 AM »
For the schematics, take a look at http://amiga-manuals.xiik.net/.

A NiMH barrel battery can be had for as little as 2€ at a decent shop. Alternatively, you can mod the circuit for a non-rechargeable coin cell, just make sure you include a diode to prevent charging. The A500 also has enough space beyond the trapdoor to use standard AA or AAA batteries (don't forget the diode for non-rechargeables though).
Logged
 

Offline mrknightTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 152
    • Show only replies by mrknight
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 03:22:49 AM »
Thank you for the link, I found a lot of useful information!

And thanks for the heads up regarding the battery. I assumed it was a non-rechargable battery on the board and was going to replace it with a non-rechargable one. That would have been bad! I will head over to the component shop later today and see what I find. Thanks!
Logged
 

Offline mrknightTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 152
    • Show only replies by mrknight
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 06:13:12 AM »
I changed the battery and checked the copper lanes but I still get these errors. The error seems to be in the expansion RAM range (is it correct that it starts at 0xC00000?) so I have decided to take it out for now.

I have bought a new RAM expansion from UK but this one is without a clock. If everything works with this new board, then I'm happy. If not, then I have to investigate the motherboard for the error. We will see in a couple of weeks...

Thank you all for your help!
Logged
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show only replies by Zac67
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 07:32:06 AM »
Yes, with a "non-1MB" Agnus the RAM is located at $C00000-$C7FFFF. Possibly the solder points on the chips are damaged as well or even the RAM chips themselves, unrelated to acid damage. You should run a RAM test and then focus on the bits in question.
Logged
 

Offline mrknightTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 152
    • Show only replies by mrknight
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 11:52:49 AM »
I should run a RAM test but I do not know what program to use, or where to get it. Maybe SysInfo will work? If not, what program do you recommend?

Problem is that I haven't figured out a good way to get files from the PC to the Amiga. I have heard that Amiga Explorer can be installed remotely from the PC onto the Amiga using a serial cable. This is something I need to investigate further.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 11:53:17 AM by mrknight »
Logged
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show only replies by freqmax
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 03:15:26 PM »
Use serial connection to transfer programs.
Logged
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 02:07:57 PM »
This page from my website may help. The schematics are ZIP 5 at the bottom of the page.

Never needed a clock with a 5000 so the battery was never that much use.

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz31.htm

Battery problems:

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz403.htm

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz347.htm

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz493.htm

Have fun
Logged
 

Offline mrknightTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 152
    • Show only replies by mrknight
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 11:39:35 PM »
Sorry for ressurrecting this old thread but I still have problem with this.

I have been unable to run a RAM test since I don't have the Workbench floppies, and as such, I can not transfer files to the Amiga. I have ordered WB 1.3 floppies from overseas but I haven't received them yet and it has been a month now. If I do not receive them this week I will bring this up with the seller.

The problem only occurs when I am using the memory expansion. If I switch it off or not not plug it in I have no problem. I bought another memory expansion and I still got the same problem. This indicate that something else is not right. How likely is it that two memory expansions have the same problem? The second expansion board does not have a clock.

I did some more research and found out that these Guru Meditation Errors I got is in fact CPU exceptions, where the 0x3 is Address Error and 0x4 is Illegal Instruction.
On Address Error: "An address error exception occurs when the processor attempts to access a word or longword
operand or an instruction at an odd address"
On Illegal Instruction: "Illegal instruction is the term used to refer to any of the word bit patterns that do not match
the bit pattern of the first word of a legal M68000 instruction"

This shouldn't happen unless the software is poorly written. My working theory is that due to a faulty address or data bus line, wrong data is being fetched from the expansion RAM, either by reading from the wrong address or by misreading at the correct address. Maybe I should check the wiring inside the computer? The computer is still sealed so I'm a bit reluctant to open it.

Does all the addressing (from the CPU) to the RAM banks go via Agnus? What about the data bus? Unfortunately, since this problem only occurs "sometimes" it won't be a line that can easily be found. If this is the problem that is. I'd hate to find out that Agnus or the CPU is not working properly=/

scuzzb494, thanks for the schematics! This is so much better to look at than that tiny print in the A500 User's Manual. Thanks!
Logged
 

Offline Zac67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 2890
    • Show only replies by Zac67
Re: Problem with memory expansion?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 07:19:43 PM »
If the gurus with both expansions are the same (or very similar) the mainboard and/or the Agnus socket seems to be the problem.

You'll need to open the case and take a look at the trapdoor connector - possibly some of the acid damage has spread over there and some cleaning/resoldering is required. Additionally, the Agnus socket can become unreliable with old age and improper storage. I may have to pull out the Agnus chip to inspect/clean the contacts - make sure you use a PLCC puller (~3€). Levering with a screwdriver can very quickly break the socket, especially with age.

Ah yes: the RAM address lines come from Agnus (it's the RAM controller for chip RAM). The data lines run through some latches (U10-U13) to the CPU side. (The latch is the point where the busses can be deconnected to run independently: chipset side and CPU/fast side.)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 08:03:26 PM by Zac67 »
Logged
 
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »