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[sim085]

When playing a game I always thought of extra stuff I would have wanted in the game. A prime example of this is Colonization where I always wondered - like many others - why the Portuguese and other nations where not added (memory concerns?), or the lack of some type of unit, etc., etc., etc..

Therefore I was wondering, is there a time by which software automatically becomes free, and one is allowed to de-compile, fix, compile and distribute (free of course)? Would this be feasible?

[carls]

Typically, a copyright will expire a long, long time after the author is dead - between 70 and 120 years in the US, I think (we've mainly got Disney to thank for that one...). So, unless the copyright holder implicitly states that the work is placed in the public domain, theres pretty much nothing you can do.
Copyright law sucks. It's certainly not adapted to the advancements in technology. And the copyright holders of old computer games generally do not seem to be interested in sharing the old games, even though they are clearly not available for purchase anywhere.

[psxphill]

Originally Posted by carls

It's certainly not adapted to the advancements in technology. And the copyright holders of old computer games generally do not seem to be interested in sharing the old games, even though they are clearly not available for purchase anywhere.

If games automatically became free after a limited amount of time, then alot of people would just wait.

It has adapted to changes in technology, unfortunately not the way you would like. Disney has pushed for longer and longer copyrights purely because of VHS/DVD/bluray coming into peoples homes. When they first started they only had cinemas to worry about, who would have trouble making money showing old films. But spread out among the population there are enough people prepared to pay for old stuff if they have to, that it becomes worthwhile & they want that protected.

As for translations, there are plenty of translated roms going about & nothing bad seems to happen to those that do it.

[swoslover]

I guess it's much like ordinary people keeping something in the attic thinking it might be valuable later.

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by sim085

When playing a game I always thought of extra stuff I would have wanted in the game. A prime example of this is Colonization where I always wondered - like many others - why the Portuguese and other nations where not added (memory concerns?), or the lack of some type of unit, etc., etc., etc..

Therefore I was wondering, is there a time by which software automatically becomes free, and one is allowed to de-compile, fix, compile and distribute (free of course)? Would this be feasible?

I think this page describes abandonware pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

"Definitions of "abandoned" vary; generally it refers to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase, over the age where the product creator feels an obligation to continue to support it, or where operating systems or hardware platforms have evolved to such a degree that the creator feels continued support cannot be financially justified. Software companies and manufacturers may change their names, go bankrupt, enter into mergers, or cease to exist for a variety of reasons. When this happens, product rights are usually transferred to another company that may elect not to sell or support products acquired.

In most cases, software classed as abandonware is not in the public domain, as it has never had its original copyright revoked and some company or individual still owns exclusive rights. Therefore, sharing of such software is usually considered copyright infringement, though in practice copyright holders rarely enforce their abandonware copyrights."

Bottom line: there are no rules, no laws, that defines when software becomes "abandonware", since this is not something that exists in a legal context. It's more of a "de facto" thing; when copyright holders no longer cares one bit about the product, and when they would no longer bother to enforce their copyright (that strictly legally speaking applies for a very long time, as others already said above), then you are in practice free to do what you want with it.

As for Amiga games and applications (as in *real* Amiga, SW made for the 68k machines of the 80's and 90's that has been gone for almost two whole decades now); I think it's safe to consider 99.9% of it abandonware. That's how these large online ADF collections can exist, containing almost every game and applications ever made for Amiga; the SW (and the whole platform for that matter) has been dead for so long now, that in practice, nobody (as in copyright holders, the legit IP owners) cares one bit about it anymore in a strictly legal context, it's abandoned! Hence no real moral obstacles exists either, although the latter may vary a great deal on an individual level (as I think you may be about to find out in this very thread, if it continues long enough); if I'd put a link here to a downloadable set of ADF's for Deluxe Paint 5 (which I could easily do, since I actually have it in front of me on my screen as I write this), then I could (almost) bet you a hundred dollars that at least some dude would cry "PIRACY!1!" quite loud, since in some people's mind, everything Amiga is sacred and can never be "abandoned", since if we would get away with labeling Amiga SW as "abandonware", it would at the same time mean that we label the Amiga as dead, and that is a big "don't compute" for some Amigans, despite it has been so in practice for almost two full decades now.

So I'd say that you are perfectly safe do do what you say you want to do. As long as you get away with it! See my point?

Another way would of course to develop a *patch* for the game, that changes the original in the way you want, adding your own contents, etc, and distribute that patch instead (and let others distribute the ADF's)!

[psxphill]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

It's more of a "de facto" thing; when copyright holders no longer cares one bit about the product, and when they would no longer bother to enforce their copyright (that strictly legally speaking applies for a very long time, as others already said above), then you are in practice free to do what you want with it.

As with any law, if you don't get caught then you are in practise free to do it. Laws are there to stop law abiding citizens, not to stop criminals.

The abandonware page on wikipedia is a little delusional & is just trying to justify it. If you accept that what you're doing is wrong then you're more likely to get away with it, because you'll be more careful.

i.e. if you buy into the abandonware idea then you will believe you have every right to sell it.

[kedawa]

Illegal is not the same as wrong.

Originally Posted by psxphill

If games automatically became free after a limited amount of time, then alot of people would just wait.

You actually think people would wait decades to play games just to save money?

[som99]

Originally Posted by psxphill

If games automatically became free after a limited amount of time, then alot of people would just wait

Yeah I would love to wait 50-70 years for free software ^^

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by psxphill

As with any law, if you don't get caught then you are in practise free to do it. Laws are there to stop law abiding citizens, not to stop criminals.

"Crime", "Criminals"? Look, copyright laws are here to help IP holders enforcing their rights, nothing more, nothing less! Only the IP owners can file a law suit if they feel that there has been some infringement (they are the only ones who cares), which they can choose to do, or choose *not* to do, it's *their* call, not "society's". If they don't want to do that, or simply don't care anymore, then there is no problem to the society whatsoever! No "crime" ! When it comes to "abandonware" it's purely a philosophical discussion about moral, at best, and when we are talking about ~20 years old SW that not even the owners cares about (or indeed even *remembers* today), then even bothering to have a discussion about moral is a bit redundant...

[kedawa]

The only crime would be selling that abandonware for profit. If someone's willing to pay for it, then the money should go to the creator or rights holder.

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by kedawa

The only crime would be selling that abandonware for profit.

In a moral sense perhaps, but as long as the IP holder doesn't consider it to be a crime, neither does the society. "Ugliness" aside...

[gertsy]

Yes. It's called time for stealing.

[sim085]

Originally Posted by gertsy

Yes. It's called time for stealing.

Just to be clear, the idea is not to profit but rather just to improve over the original - if such a thing is possible.

[dammy]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

I think this page describes abandonware pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

[I]"Definitions of "abandoned" vary; generally it refers to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase, over the age where the product creator feels an obligation to continue to support it, or where operating systems or hardware platforms have evolved to such a degree that the creator feels continued support cannot be financially justified. Software companies and manufacturers may change their names, go bankrupt, enter into mergers, or cease to exist for a variety of reasons. When this happens, product rights are usually transferred to another company that may elect not to sell or support products acquired.

"Abandonware" is a term created with no legal basis so it's not recognized by the courts. It's illegal to trade in it, it's a question if you will get caught and if there will be anyone that will seek a penalty.

[swoslover]

Originally Posted by dammy

it's a question if you will get caught and if there will be anyone that will seek a penalty.

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