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Old 07-08-2012, 09:03 PM   #1
yester64
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Default Aros vs. X1000

Mm.. i have to admit that my knowledge is really rusty. Since i left Amiga in 94 i had no contact besides an emulator.

Then i read years ago about Aros and their mobos. And now the X1000. But i am not sure what of an Amiga there are.
Can you run legacy software on them and is there new software? I don't think there is an new version of Dpaint or something like that.
CygnusEd is still available (i had that) and Dopus (i still have that).

If someone can link me to some webpage thats fine. I just like to get more knowledge about these computers.

And no, please. It is not a flame message.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/ - OS4 info.

AROS.org +
www.aros-exec.org - Aros info and forums.

There is also MorphOS - http://www.morphos-team.net/
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

@yester64
>Then i read years ago about Aros and their mobos. And now the X1000. But i am not sure what of an Amiga there are.

www.amigaos.net Official info about latest AmigaOS. (next gen AOS, AOS3 binary compatible (partial and full via included emulator) runs on x1000 etc.)
http://vmwaros.blogspot.fi/ Home of one AROS distribution. (AOS3 API compatible)
www.morphos.de Home of MOS (AOS3 API compatible OS, partially AOS3 binary compatible, OS with next gen features).

>Can you run legacy software on them and is there new software? ...

Every flavour of next gen Amigalike OS have their own set of native apps.
Also all of them can use some legacy SW.

AOS4 and MOS can run some system friendly apps directly (they have 68k jit and AOS3 API compatibility)
+ AOS4 comes with UAE and AOS kickstart files as standard, enabling close to 100% compatibility
For MOS you can buy kickstart files + install UAE separately.
For AROS you need UAE and to buy kicstart files to make it legacy AOS SW compatible.

For every next gen AOS flavour you can recompile old apps to make them fully native if you have the source codes available.

>If someone can link me to some webpage thats fine. I just like to get more knowledge about these computers.

I mainly use AOS, so here's some further info:

AOS4 uses re-implemented exec kernel and it's source code is ported and improved from AOS3.1.
Here you can see how AOS source code has been developed during the last 25+ years:
http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/in...s-4x&Itemid=18

Here is one example what SW you can use on AOS4:
http://www.blitterwolf.com/testing.html

Most new (AOS4 original) and ported SW can be found here:
http://os4depot.net/

New and updated SW is released daily:
http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=recent
http://aminet.net/recent (notice that most 68k Amiga applications can be run on AOS4 as well, +AOS4 comes with AOS3 files for emulation needs)

For new AOS4 user, this document is nice starting point for the search of SW:
http://www.os4depot.net/index.php?fu...tmooya2011.pdf
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

OS4 is a continued development of the Amiga operating system you used to run on your Commodore Amigas. Parts of it have been replaced, and it now runs on PowerPC natively. It runs system friendly 68k apps directly, so 68k and PowerPC processes run side by side. This has the advantage that when a 68k program calls a system library, the system library is native PPC code, so it runs very fast indeed. Anything which uses the old Amiga chipset directly has to go through UAE. OS4 comes with a full version of AmigaOS 3.1 and a tool called RunInUAE to help make that seemless.

AROS is an open source reimplementation of OS3.1, although it has been extended beyond that original goal. Most system friendly Amiga software can be recompiled for AROS if you have the source code. It does not run 68k apps as if they were native, it can only run 68k apps through UAE (although JanusUAE tries to hide the UAE backend and make apps look native, with some success). Historically it was always far behind AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS, although it has made some good progress in recent years.

MorphOS is another clone like AROS, except it is commercial and closed source (although it shares some sources with AROS). Like OS4, it also runs only on PowerPC, and it also can run system-friendly 68k Amiga software as if it were native.

My personal preference is OS4.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimmoK View Post
@yester64
For AROS you need UAE and to buy kicstart files to make it legacy AOS SW compatible.
I haven't tried it recently, but the idea is to use aros68k for backward compatibility. 68k workbench apps can also appear on the aros workbench.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

@psxphill

You mean the opensource remake of 68k kickstart for UAE?
(+Aros68k?)
It enables using some (more and more) 68k apps in UAE without commercial kickstart ROM (etc...) files.

Other than that, JanusUAE for AROS seems to have the best desktop integration for UAE.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Aros 68k Not only Allows to Run Amiga in uae without Need of commercial kickstart Files but improves on aos Functionality on both uae and Real amiga Hardware. The current drawback is relatively low desktop ( Wanderer- workbench replacement ) performance especially on planar Screens, but that is Not noticeable under winuae. Generally i can Cnform that aros becomes slowly a Worthy replacement for your genuine Amiga operating System. I Gotta do some Flick about it soon.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

I recommend you download the LiveCD of Icaros Desktop and give it a spin. It's without a doubt the best AROS distro out there. It can run 68K apps as if they're native programs and as for speed, it will run circles around an X1000 or a PegII if you have a modern x86 CPU. But like MOS, OS4 and OSX, the hardware support is quite narrow in scope. If you want to try it on a PC, make sure you have an Intel or Nvidia graphics card or you'll have to fallback on VESA mode graphics. The list of supported network cards is also quite small so internet access may not be available with the hardware you have on hand but Icaros is being improved all the time. The latest update added NTFS files support but was withdrawn after some people reported problems. Hopefully that will be fixed soon. You can get Icaros here: http://vmwaros.blogspot.com/
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

@yester64

In short: If you are interested in Amiga 68k (for retro gaming, etc) then your best option would be getting either a real Amiga from e-bay and similar, or use Win-UAE (or some other UAE flavor).

If what you are looking for is more to use "Amiga" for more modern stuff (like Internet, playing today's media files, etc), not for retro, while still being able to run those good-old Amiga 68k applications on much better performing HW than the 68k machines, then you basically have 2 options; either OS4 or MorphOS, and both uses PPC ISA but has totally different views regarding hardware support.

MorphOS supports a broad variety of mainstream computer systems in the shape of Mac PPC computers (even laptops) that is very easy to get a hold of, is very cheap, and yet among the most powerful the PPC ISA had to offer when it comes to desktop performance.

The OS4 has gone in completely the opposite direction by only supporting ultra-low volume custom computer systems that either costs $1,000+ and is outperformed by an ordinary cell phone, or costs $3,000+ and is about on par with the available MorphOS HW when it comes to performance.

OS4 is Hyperion's (a game porting company famous for porting 6 ancient (1998-1999) games to Linux (mostly)) attempt of creating a PPC Next Generation Amiga OS building on from where Commodore left the OS when going bankrupt.

MorphOS has the same idea (and was released long before OS4 for that matter, so maybe it would be more correct to say that OS4 builds on the same idea that MorphOS does) bringing a next generation OS that has many modern improvements on top of the Amiga OS 3.1 API. Technically speaking, MorphOS is everything OS4 is, but is faster, has more features, has better features, has better Amiga compatibility, and it has all the best "Amiga standards" API's not only bundled, but *integrated* in the OS (like CGX, MUI4, Poseidon USB stack, etc). The MorphOS "Workbench" (called "Ambient") is by far the most advanced one of any Amiga flavor; needless to say, this is a very important part of the total user experience, and competition is miles (or years) behind. MorphOS also has the best web browser (Odyssey), the AROS and OS4 versions of this MorphOS browser are still lacking some important stuff. MorphOS is not only better than OS4 on almost every measurable point, it's also much cheaper than OS4 to get going, thanks to it supporting mainstream PPC Mac computers (available dirt-cheap as second hand all over the Internet), and you can try before you buy (a *full* version of the OS can be downloaded from here, that is fully usable for 30 minutes (it's *not* a limited functionality demo version, all features are there), and after that it takes a reboot (the OS takes ~5 seconds to boot once the hardware initialization is complete). MorphOS runs on laptops, on big-box systems with multiple PCI-slots, drive bays etc, and on tiny footprint computers, yet as powerful as PPC ever got.

Simply put: MorphOS is Amiga done right!

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Old 07-09-2012, 11:37 PM   #10
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Talking Re: Aros vs. X1000

@takemehome...

"MorphOS is everything OS4 is"
You only wish! ;-)

I'm glad that MOS is not the same. MOS was planned to be a new Amigalike OS that can also run legacy Amiga SW. Due to limited resources, it still has not gone far beyond that (most stuff run still on the ABox, on the AOS API compatibility sandbox).

But yes, it's the most mature variant. Not based on original AOS, like AOS4, therefore a little bit different and therefore a bit more modern in certain things.

I only wish there would be new HW to buy for MOS as well.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

you basically have "three" choices. In Icaros (Aros) you can already install Amigaforever and soon Aros 68k (in one form or another) will be integrated for 68k support in all distributions.

For a first information you can look at my 68k distribution (free of charge) that will be partly integrated in different distributions. It is very good installable on Emulation (E-UAe, WinUAE, JanusUAE) and even on sophisticated classic hardware.

http://www.natami-news.de/html/aros_vision.html
http://www.natami-news.de/html/distr..._download.html
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

"and competition is miles (or years)"

go on dreaming...
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

First of all. Thank you for the reply and the list of links. Will take me some time to read through it.

From what i have seen so far, the most appealing solution for a new Amiga (like) system would be Acube w/OS4. This is just my personal preference right now.

Morph OS requires me to buy either an Apple computer (don't like) or a other morph compatible hardware.

Aros is a nice solution too, since it seems to run on top of a Linux system.

Hyperion (did i write that wrong now) is another interesting choice, although it seems a little expensive. Perhaps better hardware.

What make Acube appealing to me is the small size and the price.

For now, i have my old UAE (for which i lost my key 2005 edition) so i might buy it new anyway since its 2012 now.

I just need to check what software is actually available for either of the systems. As much as i like the original hardware, its more nostalgic empathy. I still will look for a A1200 or maybe 600 for the kick of gaming (or demo).

Sadly, i can't judge any of these systems to say which is technically better. But i have to read a little more in to that.

It seems to me that i chosen a wrong topic since there is no vs. but rather a what serves my needs.

Thanks again, i hope i can read maybe some reviews about the hardware and software side.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Quote:
Originally Posted by yester64 View Post
Aros is a nice solution too, since it seems to run on top of a Linux system.
Incorrect, AROS runs native on X86, X86_64, Commodore Amiga 68K, and some PPC systems. Now there are Linux hosted (including ARM) available but it's the Devs that mostly use hosted as most folks prefer to use AROS native on their given box.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Dammy already said it... it is a little more complicated.

there are three "NG" OSs now
MorphOS using used PPC Macs
AmigaOS using new but expensive PPC hardware
Aros running on different platforms (hosted or alone)

AmigaOS (the OS) is developed and sold by Hyperion and they have cooperations with Acube and e-on that produce and sell the hardware

MorphOS is developed and sold by the MorphOS team and you can buy the hardware on ebay (of course much cheaper than the new OS4 solutions)

I cannot say which solution is better because I do not own PPC.

Then Aros: it supports X86, ARM, 68k and PPC and there are solutions that run alone on supported hardware (similar to Linux) or hosted (Linux, Android, Mac and others)

The user generally uses a distribution that includes lots of preinstalled software. For X86 you can choice between Icaros, AspireOS and Broaway X, for ARM (Android) you have now a new distribution and I have created a 68k distribution "Aros Vision". All are free of charge, you can download and test them.

Hope that makes some things clearer.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Quote:
Originally Posted by dammy View Post
Incorrect, AROS runs native on X86, X86_64, Commodore Amiga 68K, and some PPC systems. Now there are Linux hosted (including ARM) available but it's the Devs that mostly use hosted as most folks prefer to use AROS native on their given box.
Darn, i had the impression that its on top of linux/bsd. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafS3 View Post
Dammy already said it... it is a little more complicated.

there are three "NG" OSs now
MorphOS using used PPC Macs
AmigaOS using new but expensive PPC hardware
Aros running on different platforms (hosted or alone)

AmigaOS (the OS) is developed and sold by Hyperion and they have cooperations with Acube and e-on that produce and sell the hardware

MorphOS is developed and sold by the MorphOS team and you can buy the hardware on ebay (of course much cheaper than the new OS4 solutions)

I cannot say which solution is better because I do not own PPC.

Then Aros: it supports X86, ARM, 68k and PPC and there are solutions that run alone on supported hardware (similar to Linux) or hosted (Linux, Android, Mac and others)

The user generally uses a distribution that includes lots of preinstalled software. For X86 you can choice between Icaros, AspireOS and Broaway X, for ARM (Android) you have now a new distribution and I have created a 68k distribution "Aros Vision". All are free of charge, you can download and test them.

Hope that makes some things clearer.
It does, but i have to do a lot of catching up. I think what i will do is, to run one of the Aros flavors and see what happens.

New hardware would be nice, but i am uncertain about it.
Thanks again for being patient with me
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:01 AM   #18
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

btw. AOS4 experience became a little bit more affordable.
SAM440ep-flex price got dropped to 270eur+taxes.
(AOS4.1 is sold separately)

I imagine full system should be buildable for about 600eur.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

Only one comment...

You can install Amigaforever for 68k in most Aros-Distributions. In near future Aros 68k with Kickstart Replacement will be used preinstalled for 68k support. Icaros will have its own solution, Broadway X will use my distribution. So keep that in mind when you test it.

AOS and MorphOS have its solutions to run 68k without additional ROMs. That should be explained by someone else. The solution in Aros is based on UAE.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: Aros vs. X1000

AOS4 comes with 68k rom files and runinUAE. It enables one to run kickstart+UAE needing apps (in full screen) with point+click.
Not sure if MOS has any solution now, except to buy AmigaForever or get ROM files from somewhere else. I would guess that they will adobt the opensource remake of kickstart one day.
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