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[Terminills]

Originally Posted by vox

PPC Macs have no battery or spare parts support at all, and are with with AGP, slow mem, EIDE ATA etc.

MOS should go X1000 and Trevor can donate a board.

Apple repair net no longer deals with anything PPC for few years, so A-EON and AmiKit are better
then 3rd party rip offs that charge $200 for laptop battery.

I recently had PPC G4 Laptop selling for 50 euros with no battery and I declined the offer when realized
how much 512MB additional RAM and battery costs + postage + import costs to non EU country
(plus 100 euros for MOS). Even I would love to have Mint 11, MacOS X and MOS on one machine,
I prefered high end workstation with OS 4.2 and Mint 11

newegg.com has new aftermarket powerbook batteries for $60 and add $30 for ram. so for the price of the x1000 you could have what 4 spares? That includes the price of Morphos on each spare.

[vox]

Originally Posted by Piru

And what do we get "right now" is what matters (as I remember this was the argument for going for the payment scheme for these 2D drivers, too. To get them out "right now" instead of waiting). I can run Linux on some 6 core i7 box. Who cares about linux...

This is my last OT message regarding this particular topic in this thread. You can PM me vox if you wish to discuss this further.

I do care about MINT and that is only way to get proper and comparable tests. This ones are abused for CUSA propaganda (see Italian blog on OS 4 counter information). MOS is superior to OS 4 as software, no doubt about it, as there is no doubt X1000 is way better system then any current MOS.

I do use Mint 13 on two dual core x64 and its way faster then any Windows and CommodoreOS, and enjoy every step of it. Linux is world No2 OS and Mint is number 3 or 4.

I dont say there are no spare parts (how long is questionable) but that there is no customer care (e.g. someone that will do all the work not only sell parts) and no matter how cheap its risky cause repairs are rip off. You mentioned Apple customer care, truth is there is none. I asked Apple Serbia, they can just sell me mouse for extreme price.

No we won't go for such insane HW, sorry. Insanely expensive, not providing significantly better performance and a dead end product (PA6T is dead and X1000 is likely already in the process of being replaced with something else). Thanks, but no thanks, I can think dozens of better ways to spend our resources than wasting it on this dead corpse of a computer.

as you like it, but OS with no new hardware will also be seen as dead.
Think about that. SInce no G5 MOS, this is G5 system.

Try getting support for X1000 after 7 years.

Its 2011 system, so will speak in 2018, no prob. PA Semi CPU is tricky
but cool and efficient CPUs dont die daily.

On the other hand look at the prices of the phase5 hardware for instance. They go higher than original price these days. Custom HW just doesn't make any sense.

X1000 is right priced when compared to SAM 460. And cost less then original G5 Mac when sold new. That is only fair comparison.

Ignore facts, but X1000 is great system, and its just hurting MOS that MOS doesnt support it. Rethink it, most of X1000 users could love to have faster AmigaOS derivative, knowing it was first PPC AmigaOS ever.


-o--o--o--o-

This is my last OT message regarding this particular topic in this thread. You can PM me vox if you wish to discuss this further

.

No need for PM to you, PM if you believe this is propaganda, and please do MINT tests. You can run Mint 11 on all PPC Macs and X1000
64 bit on X1000, 32 bit on MacsPPC, just to get the right tech use.

http://www.mintppc.org/content/user-experiences
http://www.mintppc.org/forums/viewfo...6ff6341813fe07

[vox]

Originally Posted by Terminills

newegg.com has new aftermarket powerbook batteries for $60 and add $30 for ram. so for the price of the x1000 you could have what 4 spares? That includes the price of Morphos on each spare.

True, but would take 25% of my X1000 saving budget. Its not worth of it. And I already have x64 laptop, I am looking for strong PPC desktop to run MInt 11 and AmigaOS 4.2 on it, and that is X1000.

X1000 should be compared to original PPC Mac G5 class hardware PRICE WHEN IT WAS FIRST SHOWN or SAM 460, that is only fair comparison, dont you think?

[persia]

X1000 probably shouldn't be compared to anything made in 2012, if you buy on price/performance ratios you need to stick to X86 hardware. OS4 is a hobbyist's OS, you aren't selling to the general public, you are selling to a self selected audience that is wiling to pay any amount for new AmigaOS hardware.

[Plaz]

Paying for enhanced drivers is nothing new, just alien to some in this day and age. Many years ago I payed for drivers to support highend sound cards for the version of windows I was running at the time. They served me well for years and I was glad to have them.

In reality few of your extended hardware drivers are free unless they come from open sources. The cost is built in to the price of your hardware. Sell 50,000 cards and spread that cost around so each card only has and unnoticeable tick added on. Sell only 500 and your going to feel it much more.... ya know... like when you buy a hobbiest market NG Amiga. Lighten up folks.

Plaz

[Kesa]

Originally Posted by Piru

And what do we get "right now" is what matters (as I remember this was the argument for going for the payment scheme for these 2D drivers, too. To get them out "right now" instead of waiting). I can run Linux on some 6 core i7 box. Who cares about linux...


Lets see maybe some parts for my PowerBook G4 15"?
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple...rBook_G4_15_AL
http://www.powerbookmedic.com/Powerb...p-1-c-408.html
http://www.apfelklinik.de/catalog/index.php/cPath/49_51
http://www.ifixit.com/Mac-Parts/Powe...Aluminum-15%22


No we won't go for such insane HW, sorry. Insanely expensive, not providing significantly better performance and a dead end product (PA6T is dead and X1000 is likely already in the process of being replaced with something else). Thanks, but no thanks, I can think dozens of better ways to spend our resources than wasting it on this dead corpse of a computer.


There are gazillion of repair companies still offering repairs for PPC macs. There are some many of these machines still in circulation that the support is excellent considering the age of the HW.

Try getting support for X1000 after 7 years.


$99 for a new battery with 1 year guarantee doesn't quite equate to "$200 rip off" in my books.

On the other hand look at the prices of the phase5 hardware for instance. They go higher than original price these days. Custom HW just doesn't make any sense.

-o--o--o--o-

This is my last OT message regarding this particular topic in this thread. You can PM me vox if you wish to discuss this further.

Piru that's shallow even for you. This thread is about delivering news about new drivers for AOS4.x so what gives you the right to say something so horrible in a thread that isn't even relevant to MOS

[WolfToTheMoon]

vox, you're buying X1000?

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by vox

MOS is superior to OS 4 as software, no doubt about it,

...and as a system as a whole (OS with HW).

there is no doubt X1000 is way better system then any current MOS.

Way better? No doubt?

It costs $3,000+ and we could have stopped there really, since there would be no need to go further in comparisons after that nuclear bomb argument. But since you seem to have some comprehension issues - it's 2005 performance, the 1/20 priced Mac's running MorphOS beats it in tests, the X1000 could probably go into Guinness Book of Records as the worst bang for the buck ratio hardware in 2012. The X1000 is killing OS4, and it's funny that you are so blind you can't even see it. I'm glad they're not letting MorphOS get dragged down as well. Going the mainstream way was the right way to go, we know that now.

I dont say there are no spare parts (how long is questionable) but that there is no customer care (e.g. someone that will do all the work not only sell parts) and no matter how cheap its risky cause repairs are rip off. You mentioned Apple customer care, truth is there is none. I asked Apple Serbia, they can just sell me mouse for extreme price.

Risk? Well, the parties behind X1000 (Eon and Amigakit) can't even afford to make the product available in a proper way, they have pre-orders, pre-payments, and delivery times up to a half year. These are the financial "muscles" issuing your "warranty", for a system using a limited amount of left-overs of a dead-end CPU. What if if for some reason the warranty issues starts stacking up? What if something similar to MAI/Articia S arises? There is no way they could replace/fix all boards like Genesi did with the April fix, they can't even afford to make their product available in the normal way! The only way for them would be to do like the previous AmigaOne company did, make a tantrum post at AW.net, take their money, and leave forever. Afraid of your Mac breaks down? Just get spare one, and you still have paid only 2/20th of the X1000 price. That's how "risky" Mac's are. There are hordes of them, they costs virtually nothing, they perform like an X1000, and if one breaks down, get another. It's mainstream HW.

as you like it, but OS with no new hardware will also be seen as dead.
Think about that.

PPC *is* dead!

SInce no G5 MOS, this is G5 system.

The only thing about X1000 that is "G5" is that it's 64-bit (something OS4 can't utilize anyway); otherwise it performs like G4 macs.

Ignore facts, but X1000 is great system, and its just hurting MOS that MOS doesnt support it. Rethink it, most of X1000 users could love to have faster AmigaOS derivative, knowing it was first PPC AmigaOS ever.

It's not better than what MorphOS already supports at a fraction of the price, it will never have more than a hundred users or two, and all these are OS4 fanatics (the only ones who would even *consider* paying $3,000+ for something like this) who *never* would be interested in MorphOS. Anyone really interested in MorphOS can *easily* get a MorphOS system, at *change money* in comparison. X1000 is utterly redundant to MorphOS. Get over it!

No need for PM to you, PM if you believe this is propaganda

His request to take the discussion to PM instead, was in order to keep this thread on topic, which you obviously refused. OK, have it your way...

[vox]

Way better? No doubt?

G5 CPU, DDR2, SATA2,PCI-E 16x ... most of Macs until 2006 never made it to that, and Peg2 is far behind

It costs $3,000+ and we could have stopped there really, since there would be no need to go further in comparisons after that nuclear bomb argument. But since you seem to have some comprehension issues - it's 2005 performance, the 1/20 priced Mac's running MorphOS beats it in tests, the X1000 could probably go into Guinness Book of Records as the worst bang for the buck ratio hardware in 2012.

True, but when compared to original G5 Macs its cheap, and when compared to SAM 460 its reasonably priced.

The X1000 is killing OS4, and it's funny that you are so blind you can't even see it. I'm glad they're not letting MorphOS get dragged down as well. Going the mainstream way was the right way to go, we know that now.

How can high end machine kill the OS? We just need low end machine.
MOS is not mainstream too, and good news of RadeonHD driver bring more mainstream abilities to OS4.

What if something similar to MAI/Articia S arises? There is no way they could replace/fix all boards like Genesi did with the April fix, they can't even afford to make their product available in the normal way! The only way for them would be to do like the previous AmigaOne company did, make a tantrum post at AW.net, take their money, and leave forever. Afraid of your Mac breaks down?

Yes, afraid my Mac brokes down. You are making many wild guesses here, and why is preordering of expensive hardware in batches such extraordinary thing, when all AmigaOne and SAM hardware was produced in batches?

Just get spare one, and you still have paid only 2/20th of the X1000 price. That's how "risky" Mac's are. There are hordes of them, they costs virtually nothing, they perform like an X1000, and if one breaks down, get another. It's mainstream HW.

Do tests on Mint and I will believe it performs the same, if tests show so.

PPC *is* dead!

Obviously insnt yet, its just expensive.

The only thing about X1000 that is "G5" is that it's 64-bit (something OS4 can't utilize anyway); otherwise it performs like G4 macs.

Go and read PA Semi CPU characteristics. Yes, it also opens a way for 64 bit AmigaOS.

X1000 is utterly redundant to MorphOS. Get over it!

MOS decision is not to utilize it. I say its deeply wrong because for mainstream audience no new hardware means dead OS. Therefore, AmigaOS now has better promo oportunities even being less developed then MOS.

His request to take the discussion to PM instead, was in order to keep this thread on topic, which you obviously refused. OK, have it your way...

Well this is also part of X1000 saqa: MOS users trying to prove X1000 is crap and OS4 users trying to say its best Amiga so far.

[OlafS3]

"MOS decision is not to utilize it. I say its deeply wrong because for mainstream audience no new hardware means dead OS. Therefore, AmigaOS now has better promo oportunities even being less developed then MOS."

Really are you serious? Both platforms stick in the same "dead end", called "PPC". As long as there is no big shift neither AOS nor MorphOS will win substantially more users and developers. Commercial developers look on numbers and a userbase in the hundreds is not attracting anyone. And most former Amigans already use modern computers (mostly based on standard hardware) and will not even consider to buy new expensive hardware that is not offering any additional value.

[takemehomegrandma]

@vox

There are obviously lots of things you simply don't understand (or don't *want* to understand), and you are also outright wrong in many of your statements above. But I won't be part of taking this thread further off topic. It doesn't matter anyway. You will see yourself, in due course. It's inevitable.

[Kesa]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

@vox

There are obviously lots of things you simply don't understand (or don't *want* to understand), and you are also outright wrong in many of your statements above. But I won't be part of taking this thread further off topic. It doesn't matter anyway. You will see yourself, in due course. It's inevitable.

LOL. How can it go any further off topic?

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by Kesa

LOL. How can it go any further off topic?

Perhaps by making pointless meta-posts about how much off topic a thread is, like you just did?



Discussions always tends to wander off at some point, but in this case, first off topic post was post #23 (by Vox, completely unnecessary IMHO), and 12 more from that (until *your* post, and my reply to your post) isn't that bad really in a 42 posts thread.

[Duce]

Absolutely zero sense in MOS supporting any of the proprietary OS4 PPC hardware. There's just not enough of it around to warrant it, and they would be wasting their resources.

Love 'em or hate 'em, MOS guys got it right going after the extremely cheap and extremely available PPC Mac hardware. I only wish OS4 would go that way too - a lot more people would get a chance to use a real fun little OS at a reasonable price.

[spirantho]

Originally Posted by Duce

Love 'em or hate 'em, MOS guys got it right going after the extremely cheap and extremely available PPC Mac hardware. I only wish OS4 would go that way too - a lot more people would get a chance to use a real fun little OS at a reasonable price.

Actually, I think they both got it right.

I'd hate to be limited to Macs to run my NG AmigaOS, and Hyperion's decision not to use Macs (which would obliterate the hardware NG scene) means I can do that. MOS team's decision to use Macs means we get the best of both worlds.

I like to use new hardware built for the purpose, and I'm willing to pay for that - AOS gives me that opportunity. Other people don't care about the hardware and just want something to run their NG OS - MOS gives them that opportunity.

Hyperion and MOS have given us choice, and that can't be a bad thing. What is a bad thing is when one side start telling the other side what they should be doing, when it's an entirely subjective argument.