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[mikeymike]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

It's really not very complicated at all mikeymike, the only relevant comparison for anyone thinking of buying a NG system *today*, are what options are available *today* (not a decade ago, not a decade into the future when/if OS4 finally supports the HW fully)! I'm talking about hardware availability, hardware price, hardware performance, hardware quality, what features the OS has, what Amiga Standards (like MUI, Poseidon, CGX, etc) the OS has, the performance of the OS, the level of Amiga compatibility in the OS, the stability of the OS, etc. Learning things like this, might help you make a well educated purchase decision, *not* having access to this kind of info may lead to people being fooled to buy a $3,000+ system while being of the wrong impression that it would be the only or the best alternative. Knowledge is good!

The motherboard design may be new, but the core PA6T was created in 2005 to be ready for laptops in 2007, but got shelved after Apple went x86 and bought PA Semi for the competence and pulled the plug on the PPC things, so it's at least half a decade old technology, aimed for mobile/power saving applications, and all this clearly shows in benchmarks.

To begin with, a straight-forward question was asked, how much does the X1000 retail for. There wasn't any ambiguity to the question whatsoever. The poster didn't ask for help or advice. You decided that instead of answering that question in a one-line helpful response, you came up with your almost completely unhelpful response.

You're comparing a second-hand, approx. 10 year old system with a brand-new one. Yes, it's brand-new. No-one has used it before, it is being sold as-new, with a warranty, no question there. I would also expect a level of hardware and software support with the purchase, for the length of the warranty at least.

A PowerMac G4 is approximately ten years old. You can only get one second-hand, no guarantee, and I would expect pretty much any general-purpose computer of that age to be a bargain basement price because it is well past its sell-by date, there's no guarantee how long the hardware will last or what condition it is in now. The current version of Apple's intended OS for this product will not work on it, so by that metric (as well as software support for MacOS), the product is obsolete. I assume that it is technically possible to run AmigaOS on a PowerMac G4, but unless you mention that and the user in question is capable of doing that, it's not a lot of help is it?

Hardware availability? If you can buy it, it's available, right?

Hardware performance - for relevant benchmarks, it depends largely on what the user wants to run.

Hardware quality - Have you measured this? If so, how? If not, why are you mentioning this? Because if you're able to measure scientifically the quality of hardware, I'd really like to know. Also, if such a test existed and worked as it is supposed to, I would be really surprised if a 10-year-old computer was shown to be in a fitter state of health than a brand-new one.

What features the OS has - if it does what the user wants it to do, what's the problem? People buy this because they want to run AmigaOS. There are other solutions which can run AmigaOS, but not many brand-new ones AFAIK.

The level of Amiga compatibility in the OS - repeat previous response.

Amiga standards - repeat previous response.

So, in your "helpful" response on the first page of this thread, how much of this did you convey? Do you think that your initial response help the person asking the question to make a well-educated and informed decision?

To someone who wasn't able to recognise that was a PowerMac G4, that picture conveyed "An X1000 costs 30 PowerMacs". Incredibly helpful.

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by Piru

..I know it's hard to accept that 5+ years old apple HW can beat your favorite, and is a lot cheaper, and is more easily available, and has better support and repair possibilities...

first off, see post no.3 & btw, grandma beat you to it this time

lastly & more importantly, pay attention now, I DON'T CARE that old apple hardware runs faster than my X1000 in it's current state or even when AmigaOS exploits all it's potential. I'm having fun with my X1000 and feel a sense of pride in helping test my favourite operating system and seeing it develop as time passes. I'm sure you feel the same about MOS right.

rather than trolling on every single OS4.x thread why not just start another thread bashing what ever the heck you want about OS4.x hardware/software?? this way like minded people can join in and, more importantly, people that actually want to read the thread in question can do so without being harrassed over & over again....I've been married for too long and get enough of that on a daily basis already

[fishy_fiz]

@billyfish

Originally Posted by billyfish

30 PowerMacs? As currency goes, it's a little bit cumbersome! :-)

Thanks, I enjoyed that. Funniest thing in the entire thread, and anyone who read the entire thread will appreciate the competition for laughs contained within

It's a scary day when *IM* marvelling at the stupidity and immaturity on display

[Piru]

Originally Posted by klx300r

I DON'T CARE

Funny I was certain I could read you post
"even better please post it at the Apple recycling website."

Certainly I have nothing against anyone spending their hard earned money as they see fit. Even if it's something as silly as a $3200 custom built HW with no support after couple of years. If you can't stand me pointing out how silly it is, please ignore me or something.

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by billyfish

why do you care so much about something that you clearly have no intention of buying

I'm providing a critical view in a community where criticism aren't allowed, consumer awareness about better alternatives in a community with a long tradition of shifting semi-functional products to gullible trade mark followers at an overprice, and rational thinking in a community where all rationality and logic seemingly left over a decade ago. "The usual suspects" always come moaning abou this, as we see in this thread as well.

Let's look at the "provocative" picture again, that made some of them cough their Kool-Aid all over their Boing-Ball branded keyboard from Amigakit:



What provokes them aren't the fact that this is roughly how many (depending on your search abilities) PPC NG computers you can get for *the same* amount of money as one single A1X1K system. No, what provokes them is the fact that someone has the nerve to actually point this out!

Is the A1X1K really better and faster? Not really, at least not by a great deal, it's roughly the same. To *really* illustrate the madness: For $3,000 (which is an obscene, almost provoking, amount of money for a computer in itself), you can actually get *30* fully working systems, each about on par with the A1X1K. You can use one, keep a second one for spare parts or whatever, and *give away* 28 machines (twenty-eight!) to developers or 68k users that may be curious to take the "NG Step". TWENTY-EIGHT people could have been provided a NG machine, after you have set up one (and having a spare), all at roughly the same speed as the A1X1K.

Another example - There was a community initiated effort (bounty on power2people collecting money for it) of involving bPlan (maker of Pegasos and other high-quality HW) to design a new desktop motherboard based on the 8610, one of the (if not *the*) fastest G4's ever made. It was a multi-step bounty, with a money sum that seemed incredibly high for a bounty system. But it would have resulted in a very capable and totally open source and community owned design, and it would have had a sponsored development program with free HW as well (as we have seen from other Genesi/bPlan HW launches). The irony is that all this would have taken was some 20-30 buyers of the A1X1K placing their money towards that instead. That's how excessively obscenely über-expensive the whole A1X1K deal is, without bringing much to the table beyond what a PowerMac/MacMini/PowerBook can do.

Billyfish, I will keep enlighten the world about things like this, about the alternatives you can choose instead. Don't like this? Well, too bad...

[klx300r]

Originally Posted by Piru

..Certainly I have nothing against anyone spending their hard earned money as they see fit. Even if it's something as silly as a $3200 custom built HW with no support after couple of years. If you can't stand me pointing out how silly it is, please ignore me or something.

dude I love your persistence listen I've got to get back to work so I'm punching the clock on this one (think Looney Tunes-sheep dog & coyote if that reference works in Finland).

see you in the next OS4.x thread

[mikeymike]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

I'm providing a critical view in a community where
criticism aren't allowed

LOL, it's like Burma here isn't it. However do you manage to keep up your heroic efforts and spirits in the face of all this oppression.

[antikk]

And how would you know? Always nioce to hear from the experts.

Originally Posted by Piru

and has better support and repair possibilities...

[Piru]

@mikeymike

LOL, it's like Burma here isn't it.

Bad analogy there I'd say.

It is quite hard to avoid the impression that certain parties should be considered avoid any and all criticism.

[antikk]

@grandma

But what has a powermac to do with the xx1000?

[Piru]

Originally Posted by antikk

And how would you know? Always nioce to hear from the experts.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apple+powerpc+repair

Now try to get your X1000 repaired 5+ years from now...

[eliyahu]

Originally Posted by mikeymike

LOL, it's like Burma here isn't it. However do you manage to keep up your heroic efforts and spirits in the face of all this oppression.

i know, i know. saint TMHG continues the good fight on behalf of all that is beautiful and noble in the world against the hoards of evil OS4 users. aren't we so fortunate to have the MOS team and their crusaders here to show us the light?

fight on, dear martyrs, fight on! for those who do not see the light must be fought on their own ground. never give in! never surrender! we need your enlightenment, your brilliant guidance, on every OS4 thread, o acolytes of the butterfly! only you can divine how when people talk about anything OS4-related on this site, what they really want is to talk about how MOS is superior! they must be shown the path and the glory! MOS FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

-- eliyahu

[antikk]

Sure, i'll do that.

Originally Posted by Piru

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apple+powerpc+repair

Now try to get your X1000 repaired 5+ years from now...

[eliyahu]

Originally Posted by Piru

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apple+powerpc+repair

Now try to get your X1000 repaired 5+ years from now...

why, piru, i didn't realize your god-like abilities extended even so far as to divine the future! hail, hail, o all-seeing lord of the butterfly! we humbly submit to your superior wit and wisdom!

-- eliyahu

[Piru]

Originally Posted by eliyahu

piru, i didn't realize abilities extended even so far as to divine the future

You don't need to be an Nostradamus incarnate to realize that computer with maybe 500 units sold will have way worse support than computer that sold millions.

Really.