Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community - Page 7

ShapeShifter · 12-21-2011, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlafS3

Natami (and other FPGA-Projects) are not using the old circuits and just add a little, they reimplement the behavior. From the view of OS and Applications there is no difference, but in reality it is complete new.

FPGA implementation is also a bridge to the future. It allows us to take the older technology (68K/AGA), enhance it (faster blitter ops, better speeds, more CHIP RAM, etc), and implement this onto a motherboard with more modern technology. This is the whole appeal to me. We aren't dumping the past to embrace the future, or living in the past by ignoring the future.

Take a Replay, implement a 060+ speed 68K CPU with AGA+ and RTG fully implemented in soft core. Now add to that the latest PPC CPU. Then speak to Hyperion and get them to add support for the Replay soft core, so that OS4 can run legacy programs as native apps under OS4.

Bingo! You have a modern machine, with a modern CPU, capable of running legacy apps natively (no emulation) at speeds hitherto undreamt of. Classic Amigans get the best 68K-style 'real' Amiga possible, and everyone gets the latest technology.

**OlafS3** · 12-21-2011, 02:59 AM

or just take Natami, there is already all in :-)

gazgod · 12-21-2011, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlafS3

In other threads i reacted positive to the new offer of CUSA (even if there are still some doubts...) but when I hear "supporters" like you bashing on community projects I again start to doubt. If you want support by the community it would be better to be more politely. CUSA at the moment has nothing right now that justifies to stick "Amiga" on it. Have you read the reactions to the new "C64" in the web, they were devastating (and I do not speak of their own fan-website but from the public sites. So they need support and bad speaking of others (expecially when you obviously have not read much about that projects and no knowledge of hardware and concepts) will not bring much sympathie and no customers!

Was this comment aim at me? If so:-

I'm no CUSA supporter, I think their products and OS are laughable but if this offer is genuine then I'm offering my opinion of the only way forward that may offer a product that may placate the community whilst also offering a solution that could attract customers outside the current Amiga community.

I was not knocking any of the next gen solutions (I'm a registered Morphos user, have a dedicated Aros box and have owned OS4 twice (which I do think is ****)) or the Natami (hell I'll probably buy a Natami if they ever go on sale) but they are all limited by 80's API's and are not going to replace my Windows or Linux boxen EVER and all Migas are relegated to hobby computers in my shack.

I want to go back to the days that the amiga was the only machine I needed but without decent apps and/or the ability to easily port applications to it this will never happen.

**OlafS3** · 12-21-2011, 06:11 AM

then i must excuse me...

to the topic. No Amiga-System will again become mainstream (like at the beginning of the 90s). In best case sales are big enough for companies and individuals to create dedicated products (hardware and/or software). But to reach that case there must be interesting (obviously differentiating) products and more competitive prices.

weirdami · 12-21-2011, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShapeShifter

FPGA implementation is also a bridge to the future. It allows ...

Speaking of bridges to the future. :-)

Khephren · 12-21-2011, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlafS3

then i must excuse me...

to the topic. No Amiga-System will again become mainstream (like at the beginning of the 90s). In best case sales are big enough for companies and individuals to create dedicated products (hardware and/or software). But to reach that case there must be interesting (obviously differentiating) products and more competitive prices.

I agree. The best we can hope for are some old users returning to the fold, and those interested in minority hardware/OS's picking one up. Wishful thinking would be some unification of the market, which is small, and split into even smaller camps.

I'm not sure CUSA are the company to do this. They have been actively antagonistic towards the Amiga communities in the past, and it would need a well priced item to attract the people I mentioned above. It would also need all our hardware/software guru's on board, some of whom they have pissed off.

An Amiga in a small cheap package like the 64DTV might be a better starting point.

Tripitaka · 12-21-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlafS3

then i must excuse me...

to the topic. No Amiga-System will again become mainstream (like at the beginning of the 90s). In best case sales are big enough for companies and individuals to create dedicated products (hardware and/or software). But to reach that case there must be interesting (obviously differentiating) products and more competitive prices.

I must agree. The only path to the mainstream I can see for Amiga would be one of the console manufacturers going for an Amiga OS, can't see that happening. I think Dreamcast 2 would be more likely, damn shame, but such is life.

commodorejohn · 12-21-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlafS3

to the topic. No Amiga-System will again become mainstream (like at the beginning of the 90s). In best case sales are big enough for companies and individuals to create dedicated products (hardware and/or software). But to reach that case there must be interesting (obviously differentiating) products and more competitive prices.

Oh, well said. We have to lose this idea that the only acceptable outcome is some kind of mythic return-of-the-king "retaking" of a market the Amiga never owned to begin with. Let's set our sights on something that can actually be achieved, and figure out where to go from there once that's done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khephren

I agree. The best we can hope for are some old users returning to the fold, and those interested in minority hardware/OS's picking one up. Wishful thinking would be some unification of the market, which is small, and split into even smaller camps.

I'm not sure CUSA are the company to do this. They have been actively antagonistic towards the Amiga communities in the past, and it would need a well priced item to attract the people I mentioned above. It would also need all our hardware/software guru's on board, some of whom they have pissed off.

I dunno, maybe they could unify the community in the sense that they've pissed off pretty much everybody equally. You know, in the same sense that the Saxons unified the Britons.

**spirantho** · 12-21-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

Oh, well said. We have to lose this idea that the only acceptable outcome is some kind of mythic return-of-the-king "retaking" of a market the Amiga never owned to begin with. Let's set our sights on something that can actually be achieved, and figure out where to go from there once that's done.

Right, stop that! We'll have none of this sensible thinking round here. This is an Amiga forum, we have no room rational thinking, y'hear?
Now can we please get back to talking about more normal things like beating Apple and Microsoft with a 68030?

Quote:

I dunno, maybe they could unify the community in the sense that they've pissed off pretty much everybody equally. You know, in the same sense that the Saxons unified the Britons.

Funny, that exact thought crossed my mind this morning too....

Rodomoc · 12-21-2011, 10:47 AM

OK, a hardware development and limited manufacture proposal here, made to the entire Amiga community. Let's say the community is largely comprised of legacy 68K, OS4 PPC, MorphOS PPC, Aros (on a variety of possible hardware), 68K emulated UAE, 68K emulated Amithlon. And the FPGA 68K crowd (Minimig cores, upcoming FPGA Replay, and eventually Natami) Hopefully I have not left anyone out....

The community is so fragmented that I am not surprised by the variety of posts made so far, although Natami seemed to garnish more than a bit of popularity. So anyway from a hardware platform standpoint I would think that MorphOS should be immediately thrown out. Being that they have a more clearly defined and independent path moving forward. OS4 people might benefit from new hardware more than most provided it were more cost effective than current options. At 500 pieces however and the additional need to tweak the OS to run on it, this does not seem like a good fit. I do not see Aros benefitting from a 500 piece hardware release as standard x86 stuff alread exists-is cheap-and is fast.

That leaves maybe the 68K FPGA options but even this is not so simple. Building an AGA version of Minimig? FPGA Replay already has its own hardware so this proposal not useful there. Natami maybe but I have yet to hear of any Natami Team comments about this. Besides, they are still working at things and could always do a pre-order scenerio by themselves.

Or how about taking the legacy hardware replacement route? Similar to the A1000 reproduction motherboards that are out there. A board that a legacy 68k guy could dump his custom chipset out of his 25 year old leaky battery motherboard into and bolt right into his real Amiga thus keeping his quasi-original hardware alive? The designer of the A1000 board even has some nice little upgrades that could be integrated without really breaking the real Amiga hardware experience.

Or how about just doing some support hardware? Like a PS2 or USB keyboard in the Amiga format? This could benefit all of the community in this small way.

So not a real clear situation to me at this time. Speaking selfishly, I would love to have a brand spanking new A3000 motherboard to replace my creaky original. I dump the critical chips from my old board into the new one, maybe pick up some enhanced features like more ram or 040-060 cpu, blah blah, and I would be all set.