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Old 12-20-2011, 02:11 PM   #61
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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Originally Posted by A1260 View Post
...and dont forget this is a company that have a $30 Million ad budget!!.
That is just for advertising alone.

But there is a free solution!
http://www.mintppc.org/

Mint 11 PPC could be CommodoreOS Special Edition

And iy would make us feel equal
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:14 PM   #62
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

I can understand the anger and frustration here, but it's based on the fact that Commodore USA haven't delivered on what the community want, correct? So, leaving aside the past for a second, I have to commend the fact CUSA at least are asking the question, and seem to be indicating that if it's something they're able to do, they will do it. So whether it'll happen or not, I'm just going to post what I'm looking for as a 'dream system' and what I think a lot of others are looking for, too.

@ BigBenAussie
Take something like the FPGA Replay, with full 68K + AGA chipset support in hardware (not emulation), and put this inside a stylish case, with an Amiga 4000 style keyboard (perhaps in black?). On the SD card/hard disk, install a heavily enhanced AmigaOS 3.9 with all the trimmings (with AmigaSYS, or AmiKit etc. installed.)

For added brownie points, work with a skilled engineer like Mike Johnson, or the NatAmi team, and see if you can design a 'Super Amiga' which can meld the Classic and NG Amiga systems together. My dream machine would have a fully 68K-compatble CPU onboard (soft core) operating at speeds far exceeding what an 040/060 could achieve. It would have ECS/AGA chipset support in softcore too so that it's able to run Amiga software of the past at maximum velocity.

Then, get an OS4 license and work with the Hyperion team to fully support your new system; add a PowerPC CPU capable of running OS4/apps to the board (you could work with MikeJ or Jakub/Yacubed to design a PPC CPU expansion for the Replay's daughterboard.) Then, in time, the Hyperion guys could enhance OS4, so that it would utilise the classic HW plus PPC, and all applications - whether 68K or PPC - would simply run as a native application, all within the same environment - no UAE/emulation. The user wouldn't know the difference.

Quite simply, everything would run, and would run as fast as it's possible to run - either 68K/ECS/AGA or PPC/RTG - from the oldest Amiga program to the latest PowerPC release, all from the same OS environment, with no emulation. That would be my goal; could you work with the players to make all that happen..? THAT would excite a lot of people, I'm sure!

Last edited by ShapeShifter; 12-20-2011 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:25 PM   #63
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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Originally Posted by ShapeShifter View Post
I can understand the anger and frustration here, but it's based on the fact that Commodore USA haven't delivered on what the community want, correct?
Well, it's as much that they've been openly snide and hostile towards anybody who doesn't agree with their direction - Leo has sneered about how "this is the new future of Commodore, and you just need to get over it," and Barry has...well, you can take your pick of things Barry's said. Even people who come in with honest questions and no axe to grind have gotten this treatment.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:39 PM   #64
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

I'll repost this from Amigaworld. As clearly here on A.org everyone is talking about hardware opportunities in much the same manner as on AW.

@BigBenAussie

Genuine suggestion amongst the rabble:

No-one has suggested this yet, everyone is purely talking about what hardware they could bring to the table.

What if Commodore USA decided to bring new software to the two major Amiga platforms?

Without scouring the internet for solid examples, it is legal in some instances to charge for Open Source software. So IF this included OpenOffice as a wild example - I think every AmigaOS and MorphOS would buy it in a heartbeat.

Is that an area you could explore?
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:51 PM   #65
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

Here is the first remotely positive reply I have ever offered to CUSA.
In theory, I really like the idea. I will be on the poll. This could actually work out to be a great idea. I guess we'll see....
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:22 PM   #66
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
Well, it's as much that they've been openly snide and hostile towards anybody who doesn't agree with their direction - Leo has sneered about how "this is the new future of Commodore, and you just need to get over it," and Barry has...well, you can take your pick of things Barry's said. Even people who come in with honest questions and no axe to grind have gotten this treatment.
Ah, yeah. I can see how that would rather 'rub people the wrong way'.

My suggestion remains however. The Amiga world still needs somebody to put out a modern machine with modern features which nonetheless brings it's history along with it in a seamless fashion. A machine capable of outperforming any classic model Amiga whilst running classic apps, and yet also capable of running the latest and greatest software via modern CPUs.

I'd like to see a Workbench/OS4 which seamlessly executes classic software alongside NG software without the need for any JIT or UAE emulation. Double-click an icon, and whether it's a 68K or PPC app, it opens and runs the same - the user can't tell the difference. The only difference which should be noticeable from e.g. running the same app on an A4000 is that it's running in OS4, and that it's running a lot faster than the fastest 68K classic Amiga.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:30 PM   #67
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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Originally Posted by BigBenAussie View Post
Don't worry about the Hyperion agreement so much.
If it is relevant to the product, then there will be negotiations with the relevant parties to determine the cost to the project.
If it is too much, then the community could opt for the second most desirable product, until they settle on something in the realm of the possible.
Assume anything is possible....and we will go see if it is....and get back to you.
Am very intrested not to worried about politics or the past
If its at price i can afford and its either got hardware emulation with old amiga chips
or complete new system with good amont of cpu power running amiga os has to be either
Os 3.1 or amiga os 4.1 licenced from hyperion
then yes i pre order one with money held in safe netural place
Why not work with nat ami people fund them finiish there project or buy the project
save alot devolpment time as people dont want be waiting years
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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Originally Posted by A1260 View Post
...and dont forget this is a company that have a $30 Million ad budget!!.
If that's true, then what the hell are they doing? Think of what SANE people could do with that money
Quote:
Originally Posted by actung_bab View Post
Why not work with nat ami people fund them finiish there project or buy the project
save alot devolpment time as people dont want be waiting years
But why would the Natami people want to deal with loonies? These guys first have to solve some other issues, because they ain't flying on all thrusters.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:28 PM   #69
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

Let's dare to dream, the worst that can happen is C=USA disappoints us. If we ask and they don't deliver that's their fault, if we don't ask, then it's our fault. Natami is almost finished. What if they could produce Natami in a case for a decent price? What about a MOS/AOS 4 compatible PPC machine at something closer to Intel price performance ratios?
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:29 PM   #70
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

Natami folks would be shooting themselves in the foot getting involved with C-USA, in my opinion. They don't need them, and C-USA would just be trying to leech onto some credibility.

They have got this far by getting their hands dirty soldering and testing, and made a good name for themselves and have products upcoming people are really looking forward to. Same goes for Mike and crew.

C-USA being involved would be a black mark on an otherwise good record for those guys, lol.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:47 PM   #71
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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Originally Posted by Duce View Post
Natami folks would be shooting themselves in the foot getting involved with C-USA, in my opinion. They don't need them, and C-USA would just be trying to leech onto some credibility.

They have got this far by getting their hands dirty soldering and testing, and made a good name for themselves and have products upcoming people are really looking forward to. Same goes for Mike and crew.

C-USA being involved would be a black mark on an otherwise good record for those guys, lol.
I could actually argue that things are the opposite. CUSA has created and delivered several products. The Natami team has been at it since around 2005 and they still haven't delivered anything to market. So as far as credibility goes, I say that CUSA has it and Natami doesn't at this point.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:06 PM   #72
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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I could actually argue that things are the opposite. CUSA has created and delivered several products. The Natami team has been at it since around 2005 and they still haven't delivered anything to market. So as far as credibility goes, I say that CUSA has it and Natami doesn't at this point.
But the Natami people are actually trying to make a new product from scratch, without any kind of serious money behind it (as far as I know). That's a lot more difficult then goofing around whith money in your pocket. After all, what kind of interesting products has CUSA delivered that actually have anything to do with Amiga at all?
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:09 PM   #73
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

@CUSA

Don't make the mistake of going down the custom hardware route, its been done and its a just a hole to throw money in.

Choose off the shelf hardware whether that be X86 or Arm, and deliver a custom Amiga OS that fully supports modern hardware, whether this means buying into OS4 or Morphos or chucking money at Aros and expanding them, or developing a new OS.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:14 PM   #74
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

OS dev costs are probably more than hardware dev costs when it comes to bespoke items.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:25 PM   #75
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Default Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

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OS dev costs are probably more than hardware dev costs when it comes to bespoke items.
Indeed, but once the development is done then its done otherwise you end up having to develop new custom hardware to move the OS along ala OS4 which is far from an ideal solution.

And a new OS does not have to be developed from scratch in fact I would say that is also pointless way to go, but rather to base the OS on existing technology ie the Linux kernel. I'm not suggesting that it should be just another Linux distro but to use the kernel would make a great starting point.
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