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Amiga.org The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" Alternative Operating Systems An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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Old 11-28-2011, 06:32 PM   #41
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

I just sharted...
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

The hysterical thing is how oddly defensive people are about their particular views. It's not about C-USA, or "the grand lineage of the Amiga" really, is it? And before you know it, people are pulling the old "freedom of speech" card.

Enjoy what you got, buy what you want - and you SHOULD be able to voice your opinions in a sane and civil manner here. If you feel C-USA is the future of the line, I'd love to hear a civil conversation about it that doesn't parrot a bunch of PR hype. If you're of the old school camp and feel C-USA's offerings are the equivalent of raping you of your fond childhood Amiga moments, you should be able to point that out. We are all capable of ignoring threads, and users, and at times I can see now that I have not helped situations with my contributions to threads. I'm trying my best personally to not fuel the flames, but it's often hard to refrain from when people sweep blatant facts under the rug, you know? One of the first times I ever spoke out against a certain camp, the one time I asked a few questions - I got personally harassed via PM for it.

That garbage doesn't matter to anyone with a brain. It's filler. I could sit here and pull my usual troll routine of pointing out hideous business management tactics and it likely won't keep anyone from buying a machine they are interested in. If you are an old school Amigan, you know damned well the idea of a $ 25,000 x86 PC in a case is ludicrous. If you are convinced said offerings from Commodore Usa, LLC - whether they be a 64, VIC or Amiga are a true revolution and not just a badge on a Linux PC (they admittedly are atm, even by C-USA's own description, I'd love to hear your angle on it. I hope anyone that buys the Amiga of their choosing enjoys it, old, new, or otherwise.

We're all big boys and girls, capable of discussing hot button topics rationally - and I admit myself that I have fueled flames when I should have, which is a habit I am trying to break unless someone is outright lying about blatant facts.

Know who the true victims here are? The little guys - the guys like the Natami guys, guys like the FPGA Arcade dudes burning their fingers with soldering irons, making what is as close to a modern day next gen, daily driver Amiga for all of us at likely very little to no profit. Hell, even the PPC Amiga (and AROS on the other side, of course) guys should be entirely applauded for their efforts - MOS, OS4, etc. for keeping the boat afloat this long.

We can have civil debate here, and we can all ignore threads that offer differing viewpoints. But for God's sakes, let's not ignore the above mentioned "little guys". I'm sure we can all agree that aspect is extremely important, even if you are a next gen or non traditional PPC/Motorola fan.

Without the little guys we wouldn't be as far as we are.

Last edited by Duce; 11-28-2011 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:16 PM   #43
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Balls!

We need something similar to the Efika but the next line up in the CPU range that offers more Ram and Sata etc and maybe built in 3D GPU

Maybe two versions A box type Amiga Nano ú149 or a 10" Tablet ú199

Simple and Cost Effective is USEFULL!
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Would be nice, but unfortunately, the people interested in producing something like that don't have the resources, and the people who have the resources aren't interested :/
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:36 AM   #45
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

After having visited the commodore-usa website and installed their downloadable Beta OS...i gave it a try in a "regular pc". Its based on a Linux mint distro and looks pretty nice. The question if this has anything to do with the Commodore 64 i used to know from back then... nah..i dont think so.

But, instead of having for a Windows (or other os) based machine for Emulation use, u could also take a look at the Commodore os. I created a small movie running Commodore OS on my pc.

http://www.skateman.nl/2011/11/28/co...ning-on-my-pc/

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Old 12-17-2011, 07:28 AM   #46
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skateman1972 View Post
After having visited the commodore-usa website and installed their downloadable Beta OS...i gave it a try in a "regular pc". Its based on a Linux mint distro and looks pretty nice. The question if this has anything to do with the Commodore 64 i used to know from back then... nah..i dont think so.

But, instead of having for a Windows (or other os) based machine for Emulation use, u could also take a look at the Commodore os. I created a small movie running Commodore OS on my pc.

http://www.skateman.nl/2011/11/28/co...ning-on-my-pc/

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You downloaded the Beta that does not contain copyrighted material that the owners of C=USA machines will be getting. Namely the C64/Amiga Forever plus literally thousands of C64 games.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:25 AM   #47
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Or, alternatively, one could skip out on licensing the OS and just purchase the C64Forever/Amiga Forever oneself...

(Or *gasp* *shock* *horrors* one could simply download the games in question off a ROM site.)
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:52 PM   #48
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Apart from Dammy being... well... Dammy, and the rest of the "CUSA suxxorz!" or "Yaay CUSA!" crowd, I am intrigued at this bumblebee thing. Is it cheaper:

A: Because no one is trying to label it as anything "specific", just that it is hardware equivalent?

B: lack of the specialty chips?

C: Craptons of Zilog chips errywhere? (weren't they massively "cloned" by the Russkies?)
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:35 PM   #49
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

I'm assuming it's probably B/C, lots of Z80 micros were built out of different combinations of off-the-shelf parts, and some of them still have kit variants around (for example, it's cheaper to build your own Jupiter Ace than pay the prices the few surviving command.) But it's not just a Microbee rebuild; I dunno how the extra hardware factors in.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:19 PM   #50
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skateman1972 View Post
After having visited the commodore-usa website and installed their downloadable Beta OS...i gave it a try in a "regular pc". Its based on a Linux mint distro and looks pretty nice. The question if this has anything to do with the Commodore 64 i used to know from back then... nah..i dont think so.
==Skateman, I appreciate the 'review' you've put up for the COS Vision and all, but I disagree with what you say here that the COS has 'nothing to do with C64'. CUSA is producing Commodore computers and a C64 for the 'modern age' (albeit with a nostalgic slant here, complete with fully custom Cherry Blue keyboard - just to please those fans).

I don't claim to be 'their spokesman' (I am not, just an outside client/observer). But I will say to you (and others) what needs to be said (just to give you some perspective).

To clarify I think what you and maybe some in the larger community haven't grasped is maybe two things. First is that CUSA was very lucky to have obtained the proper Commodore licence (for the brand). The CTO has mentioned to me a few times already that there were other interested parties (some foreign companies with more resources) who wanted to buy the C= licence. It is with pure luck that it is still in American hands and can still eventually be the former company it once was (with you and others help). You may not appreciate this fact, but some of us do. Because without CUSA's intervention we wouldn't even be having this conversation....


And the second point is, please try to understand is that CUSA is trying to work from a point not where Commodore left off, but the most likely route Commodore would have taken (and been on now) had they still been around, with whatever resources are at their disposal worldwide (be it mass production/available platforms/product quality etc). Much progress has happened in the technology world and the Commodore of today cannot ignore those changes (like it did in the past), whether in systems architecture, manufacturing, CPU/graphic card design or available/supported software. To do so (and going against the grain of what has happened/developed over the years), is simply to dig their own grave yet again. That's why I understand the route of where they are going - because it has to be realistic ie. it has to make them money whilst still meeting all their other requirements/targets. It isn't easy in this day and age because there are plenty more gaming systems/OSes/platforms that has appeared since the C64/Amiga (and far outweigh their performance). Compatibility with other systems ie. x86 therefore is probably the only logical way forward for the Commodore/Amiga brands now. You may like to disagree with what I'm saying here, but this is the truth.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:54 PM   #51
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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==Skateman, I appreciate the 'review' you've put up for the COS Vision and all, but I disagree with what you say here that the COS has 'nothing to do with C64'. CUSA is producing Commodore computers and a C64 for the 'modern age' (albeit with a nostalgic slant here, complete with fully custom Cherry Blue keyboard - just to please those fans).
No, they're producing a PC in a C64 case.

Quote:
First is that CUSA was very lucky to have obtained the proper Commodore licence (for the brand).
Luck had nothing to do with it. Money did. The Commodore and Amiga brands have been passed around like a two-dollar whore since the bankruptcy back in 1994 - Barry's just the latest "client."

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It is with pure luck that it is still in American hands and can still eventually be the former company it once was (with you and others help).
Is that what's important? That as long as it's Americans exploiting the brand, insulting the community, and slandering and demeaning anybody who raises objections, it's okay? (And should I even have to point out that the C64x is generic Chinese PC components in a case manufactured overseas, and IIRC assembled in China as well? It's about as American as escargot.)

Quote:
And the second point is, please try to understand is that CUSA is trying to work from a point not where Commodore left off, but the most likely route Commodore would have taken (and been on now) had they still been around,
Okay, even taking that statement at face value? Why is that a good thing!? Commodore corporate never had any idea what it was doing, not since the initial success of the C64 and the launch of the Amiga. The community is armed to the gills with tales from engineers and programmers ready and willing to attest to how ineptly things were run. We'd be better off trying to figure out what post-Tramiel Commodore would never have done in a million years than try to follow some theoretical progression from the days of R&D malaise, countless failed side-projects, and executive malfeasance.

Quote:
Much progress has happened in the technology world and the Commodore of today cannot ignore those changes (like it did in the past), whether in systems architecture, manufacturing, CPU/graphic card design or available/supported software. To do so (and going against the grain of what has happened/developed over the years), is simply to dig their own grave yet again.
Here's my question, though. If you're not making something different, then you're going head-to-head with the entire established industry. And if you're doing that, what could you possibly have that would leave you in a position to even stay afloat, let alone make any headway? Here's a hint, a brand and a fancy case are not going to cut it in the cut-throat, slash-price world of PC clone manufacturers. You'd have better luck trying to swim in a pool of pirahnas.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:06 PM   #52
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

If you're so up in arms about CUSA and how the brand has been "abused" why don't you raise some capital and buy the brand yourself instead of constantly ranting in this thread? Or better yet, go rant on the CUSA forums or have they banned you there?

Brands get bought, traded, used, abused, etc.....all the time. Get over it.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:06 PM   #53
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:27 PM   #54
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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If you're so up in arms about CUSA and how the brand has been "abused" why don't you raise some capital and buy the brand yourself instead of constantly ranting in this thread? Or better yet, go rant on the CUSA forums or have they banned you there?

Brands get bought, traded, used, abused, etc.....all the time. Get over it.
And why don't you make it rain gumdrops? I'm working off $10K+ of student loans, trying to cover rent, fixing a car that keeps coming up with new things to need repair, and squeezing in a few pleasures of life when and where I can afford them, thank you very much - I have nothing left over for any business ventures. Believe me, if I could buy out the whole sorry fuškup that is the CBM/Amiga trademark hoard, I would, but I can't.

And no, I haven't been banned on the CUSA forums because I never joined, because there's enough sycophants around here, thanks. I'm not just going to "get over it," either, not when it's still going on. If people were just licensing a brand name for crap, I wouldn't have anything to say about it, but when they're licensing a brand name for crap and then having their sock-puppets demand applause and swearing of fealty for it, you better believe I'm going to share my opinion about that.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:31 PM   #55
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.
Has it, now? I wonder, how many people have been hired stateside as a result? How many foreign sales of the C64x have brought how much money into the country? How does all that stack up against the jobs created overseas and the cost of manufacturing sending money out of the country? Guess we'll never know, because if you ask Barry he'll just ask about your sex life and imply that he gets off on watching.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:39 PM   #56
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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The positive thing about CUSA being American based is that it has created some jobs here in the USA and brought some money into this country.
To some extent I agree - and while I am Canadian and not American, kudos for them for keeping some things on our shores on this continent. But I am not about to give too big of a round of applause for selling the VIC computers at 4x price buff when there isn't a *******ed thing "American" about it. You can find one of them for $130 online, and you are paying $300+ more for a box and a rebadged Linux distro. I am not their market, I suppose.

They still share contact numbers with a furniture dealer and a therapist, so lets not get ahead of ourselves and think for one second they have anything but a boxing/packing facility going on. There's no Jony Ive of the future sitting there with pen and paper in hand, whipping up the next world shaker bit of tech in a back room. If tours are given at the place, I'd be happy to visit them next time I am down that way, in fact - I'd love to be proved wrong, but no NDA or "no photos" nonsense, lol.

Sorry, all the fancy pictures of their workstations and facilities might just be grabs off Google images just like their "factory" pics and their "prototypes" pic page that they removed credits from the original artists on. Or the promises that all these machines would be flying off the shelves of Best Buy. Or the, well - ad nauseum that could go on forever.

That being said, I am anti censorship, here and elsewhere - even in regards to C-USA. I can ignore what I like, but there's no re-invention of the wheel here, boys. C-USA has had a fervent belief and history here on these forums, using the free speech nature of it (A.org) is the equivalent of free advertising via sheer spam and such for them, and I just wish they would simply pony up and buy adspace. The fact they haven't is the sole reason I have never contributed one thin dime to the A.org kitty. Simple as that. I love this site, use it a lot - but why should I contribute just to converse when others use it as a viral ad campaign? C-USA is not alone in doing this, either - the difference is they have been rude, deceptive and outright hostile in the treatment of the community here. I won't contribute to this great community resource forums while others use it as a backhanded, vehement advertising dropzone. And anyone saying "derp, I don't care what they have said or done to people, let their products speak for themselves" doesn't deserve the eyes in their heads. The fanboys have made threats, insults, homophobic slurs, the works - that counts for something, doesn't it? Would you eat at a restaurant that the waiter says "Have a good day, you a$$hole, I hope you get cancer" when you pay your bill after it happened the first time?

These systems are less American than my iProducts, lol - at least Apple is making the A series chips in the US (Texas) facility soon, and the designers are Americans paying American taxes, the company employing thousands of Americans.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:49 PM   #57
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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Has it, now? I wonder, how many people have been hired stateside as a result? How many foreign sales of the C64x have brought how much money into the country? How does all that stack up against the jobs created overseas and the cost of manufacturing sending money out of the country? Guess we'll never know, because if you ask Barry he'll just ask about your sex life and imply that he gets off on watching.
Some of the manufacturing was done right here in the USA, and the design. The guy even setup an office and hired people in Florida to assemble machines and they sold product both here in the states and abroad, bringing money back home. If you bother to take a look at what the guy has done, he's tried to keep as much of the production state side as possible, a very commendable action in my opinion. Who cares what the numbers are, it's a lot better than if this was just some foreign outfit that didn't hire any American workers and just sucked money out of our economy. I guess none of that means squat to you.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:58 PM   #58
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

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They still share contact numbers with a furniture dealer and a therapist, so lets not get ahead of ourselves and think for one second they have anything but a boxing/packing facility going on.
You didn't see the video of the cases popping out of the moulding machine from that Florida injection moulding company or tech benches at their office where they hand assemble the custom orders?
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:05 PM   #59
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Some of the manufacturing was done right here in the USA, and the design. The guy even setup an office and hired people in Florida to assemble machines and they sold product both here in the states and abroad, bringing money back home. If you bother to take a look at what the guy has done, he's tried to keep as much of the production state side as possible, a very commendable action in my opinion. Who cares what the numbers are, it's a lot better than if this was just some foreign outfit that didn't hire any American workers and just sucked money out of our economy. I guess none of that means squat to you.
And again I ask: exactly how many people were hired stateside? Judging by the pictures, they have a front office and then a work area about the size of the break room at my workplace with maybe half a dozen stations set up on folding tables. How does that stack up against the cash and job flow out of the country? If what really matters here is bettering the American economy (as opposed to, you know, producing a good product, providing quality support, or not being an ******* to the community you keep trying to ingratiate yourself with,) then I'd like to see some actual numbers.

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Originally Posted by koaftder View Post
You didn't see the video of the cases popping out of the moulding machine from that Florida injection moulding company or tech benches at their office where they hand assemble the custom orders?
I recall the injection-moulding machine being in a foreign plant, myself, but if you'll provide me a link I'll reconsider as I'm not 100% sure on that. As for the break-room, I maintain that I'd like to know exactly how much of a net gain this is for the precious American economy.
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Last edited by commodorejohn; 12-17-2011 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:26 PM   #60
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Default Re: An alternative approach to re-launching classic computers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
And again I ask: exactly how many people were hired stateside? Judging by the pictures, they have a front office and then a work area about the size of the break room at my workplace with maybe half a dozen stations set up on folding tables. How does that stack up against the cash and job flow out of the country? If what really matters here is bettering the American economy (as opposed to, you know, producing a good product, providing quality support, or not being an ******* to the community you keep trying to ingratiate yourself with,) then I'd like to see some actual numbers.
Dude, this pretty petty crap. I know your on a roll this evening, but damn.

Quote:
I recall the injection-moulding machine being in a foreign plant, myself, but if you'll provide me a link I'll reconsider as I'm not 100% sure on that. As for the break-room, I maintain that I'd like to know exactly how much of a net gain this is for the precious American economy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcCnZ...ayer_embedded#!

company: Technicraft Plastics, Ft. Laurdale Florida
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