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Old 11-04-2011, 02:43 AM   #1
haywirepc
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Default Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Can someone please tell me whats the fastest supported powermac g4 you can get that is supported by morphos...?

Also, I'm sure I saw someone here talk about a processor upgrade to 2ghz+ he got that he used on his morphos machine. Any info on those/links would be appreciated.

In searching ebay, I am finding tons of 800mhz-1.25ghz g4's but none much faster...

And can someone tell me at 1.25ghz can you run very demanding aga games in uae in morphos without any lag?

Can't do that on 1.25ghz-2ghz intel or amd pc, with winuae without lag city (at least for very demanding 68k games) but I don't know much about g4 or mac hardware in general.

I just don't want to buy one then go gee its not fast enough and have to buy another one.

Any thoughts very appreciated...
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Nope, on my 1.42ghz mac mini even stuff like Aladdin isnt quite perfect (although its pretty close). Having said that though Ive not spend much time fine tuning euae config, so there's probably a little more juice that can be squeezed. From my experiences with it on othr systems, and the difference a bit of tuning can make Id hazzard a guess it could be maybe 10-20% either side of a stock a1200 without fastram (depending on the game).

Big difference between a similarly specced G4 vs. an x86 system with euae (favoring x86 of course). Hopefully this will change eventually, but if the "progress" reported thus far for the ppc jit 68k emulator is anything to go by I wouldnt hold my breath unfortunately.
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Yeah I figured as much myself. I know you can get alot better performance sometimes by switching to 8bit sound and modifying (lowering) the fps rates... Worth a shot for you Fishy.

I wanted to wait for g5 support so I could go with a much faster machine but I don't know when or if that will be completed.

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Old 11-04-2011, 04:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

It's of no real consequence to me really. My a1200+'040 card keeps me pretty content for custom chipset hitting software. The main reason I even set up UAE on any of my systems is for the sake of "completion" (especially true with my amithlon box being that its OS3.x based it just "feels" right to have access to any classic software), plus depending on what Im doing its not always practical and/or worth the effort to switch machines.

A 320x256x8 screenmode makes quite a difference to speed I must admit, but then things dont look quite right (ditherig and/or wrong colors for example). It also requires a little luck as far as monitor/gfx card goes to even be able to create it.

To each his own, but if something doesnt work full speed, full framerate its not worth the effort in my opinion (although I guess its easier to think like that when I have an ok-ish real amiga as well).

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Old 11-04-2011, 04:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

My A1200 died some time ago. Since then,I have a 2ghz cybernet zpc all in one setup with winuae that boots right to aos3.9.

Its fine for most things, but when I tried really demanding aga games it would sometimes be slow. I lowered the frame rates alot, which honestly I don't notice any difference visually, but now everything works fine.

Its funny that a 2ghz computer is not enough to emulate a 14mhz amiga. That says alot about amigas.

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Old 11-04-2011, 04:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haywirepc View Post
Can someone please tell me whats the fastest supported powermac g4 you can get that is supported by morphos...?
I guess that a MDD with an accelerator. Despiting having slower memory it seems that most fastest G4 cpu cards are available for QuickSilvers. But anyway I think that MDDs are the best ones. There are accelerators running at 1.8-2Ghz from various companies like Sonnet, Powerlogix and others. Some of them have a 7448 and I guess that's the fastest. Perhaps it's possible to overclock bus speed a little with MDD if you install a 7448 (it admits up to 200Mhz bus frequency)

I have played 1920x1080 videos on my Mac Mini but audio lags behind , it depends a lot on the codec used (for 1920x1080 I tried using mpeg2 iirc, although 1280x720p using h264 work without problems)

Quote:
Also, I'm sure I saw someone here talk about a processor upgrade to 2ghz+ he got that he used on his morphos machine. Any info on those/links would be appreciated.
It's probably a quicksilver with a 7448 2Ghz cpu card. But Quicksilver uses 133Mhz bus instead of 166Mhz so I'm not sure if performance is much better than an MDD. I guess that an MDD with an overlclocked 7448 running at >2Ghz should be the fastest.

Quote:
In searching ebay, I am finding tons of 800mhz-1.25ghz g4's but none much faster...
Get a MDD one. You may have to seek a cpu card separately. These aren't common but IMHO these are easier to get than working CSPPC

Quote:
And can someone tell me at 1.25ghz can you run very demanding aga games in uae in morphos without any lag?
I haven't tried AGA games. I have tried A500 demos and these seem to work without any frameskip at full speed on my Mac Mini. I even use hi-res and don't use lo-res so I'm sure A1200 games should play ok if you set the screen to lo-res. You should use the native version with Overlay and avoid using the SDL one, after all RTG-compatible apps should run natively on MorphOS directly.

Quote:
Can't do that on 1.25ghz-2ghz intel or amd pc, with winuae without lag city (at least for very demanding 68k games) but I don't know much about g4 or mac hardware in general.
What do you mean by "very demanding games"? FPS games could run on MorphOS if RTG is supported. I guess Doom or Quake doesn't concern you, right?

Quote:
I just don't want to buy one then go gee its not fast enough and have to buy another one.

Any thoughts very appreciated...
You can always buy a cheap MDD 1.25Ghz or 1.42Ghz, test it with the demo and see if it suits your needs. If it doesn't you can sell it for the same you paid. If you like it you can buy the MorphOS license.


PS: if you are interested on laptops you may check out a powerbook as it has a 1.67ghz G4 and a fast gfx card.
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Last edited by Crumb; 11-04-2011 at 04:51 AM..
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

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Originally Posted by fishy_fiz View Post
Nope, on my 1.42ghz mac mini even stuff like Aladdin isnt quite perfect (although its pretty close). Having said that though Ive not spend much time fine tuning euae config, so there's probably a little more juice that can be squeezed. From my experiences with it on othr systems, and the difference a bit of tuning can make Id hazzard a guess it could be maybe 10-20% either side of a stock a1200 without fastram (depending on the game)..
I'll try tonight, but i'm confident Aladdin would run just nicely on Mac mini, and that it even would on my Pegasos2. But that's assuming you use a fast output driver like overlay mode or cgx, and not the SDL version that crawls.

The performance of UAE on a G4 mini should rather be considered as something like at 68030@~40MHz or so.

On the other hand, it would be unsufficient for demanding applications (but most of them run directly in MorphOS anyway) or games like AlienBreed3D, Breathless, of course.

Last edited by Fab; 11-04-2011 at 05:12 AM..
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

@Crumb

Being that Im a bit of a perfectionist and things running properly is a bit of a concern of mine Id hazzard a guess Haywirepc mean things like Xtreme Racing, capital punishment, Tzero, Super Stardust, AlienBreed3d, scene demos and so on. With emulation "heavy" games arent always ones that require more resources on thier native machne, a leason that has cost me quite a few upgrades over the years
It's more about knowing that everything's fine should I decide I want to use "Software X" than particularly wanting to use it
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

@Fab

Actually my wording mightn't be the best there. When I say "even stuff like" I mean a gamestyle that should be bread and butter for a stock a1200, whereas most people would be more concerned about performance of things like AlienBreed3d, Breathless, and so on.
Aladdin seems surprisingly heavy on euae vs some other bread and butter style AGA games.

Id be interested in any feedback or suggestions you could give me though when you do get around to it. Im pretty new to MOS and its different versions of software, tweaks and so on and Id be a happy man if I could get a little more performance out of euae for when I want to use it.
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy_fiz View Post
@Fab
Id be interested in any feedback or suggestions you could give me though when you do get around to it. Im pretty new to MOS and its different versions of software, tweaks and so on and Id be a happy man if I could get a little more performance out of euae for when I want to use it.
First tell me which UAE port you use. I suggest you use mine (WIP3 or 4) at http://fabportnawak.free.fr/uae/

For speed reasons, the uae binary should be used, and not the uae.sdl one. In the config file, you can enable overlay by using amiga.use_overlay=true (it's shown in the config files supplied in the archive).
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haywirepc View Post
My A1200 died some time ago. Since then,I have a 2ghz cybernet zpc all in one setup with winuae that boots right to aos3.9.

Its fine for most things, but when I tried really demanding aga games it would sometimes be slow. I lowered the frame rates alot, which honestly I don't notice any difference visually, but now everything works fine.

Its funny that a 2ghz computer is not enough to emulate a 14mhz amiga. That says alot about amigas.

Steven
Classic Amigas includes custom chipset btw.

Playing AGA games in WinUAE is fine with my laptop's Intel Core i7-740QM Quad-Core @1.73Ghz/2.93Ghz (Turbo). PSP2 and Wii emulator runs pretty well on my laptop's Intel Core i7-740QM.

Last edited by Hammer; 11-04-2011 at 06:15 AM..
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

As crumb said, the fastest you'll probably find is an MDD Power Mac G4 (uses DDR RAM; I read that the G4 doesn't have a DDR-capable bus, but that's still faster than PC133 SDRAM) plus one of the third-party accelerator cards (which go up to 2GHz.) Those, however, can be pretty pricy. You may find it cheaper and easier to get one of the 1.67GHz PowerBooks - I haven't tried much in E-UAE on mine, but in other demanding applications (Flash video) I've found it quite a bit snappier than the 1.25GHz G4 machines.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Quote:
And can someone tell me at 1.25ghz can you run very demanding aga games in uae in morphos without any lag?
I've got the 1.25 mini mac and not noticed any lag in any games I've played. Aladdin if i remember right ran perfect, only game i can remember having issues with was Vixen that ran way to fast. But if you have any games you wanted tested post in here and I'll try them later on for you.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:34 AM   #14
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Okay, from a quick test on my PowerBook, with E-UAE set for an AGA 040 with most-accurate emulation and zero frameskip, Aladdin runs pretty well. I don't have the original as a basis for comparison, but it's smooth enough that I can believe the bottleneck is in the emulated hardware.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy_fiz View Post
Nope, on my 1.42ghz mac mini even stuff like Aladdin isnt quite perfect (although its pretty close). Having said that though Ive not spend much time fine tuning euae config, so there's probably a little more juice that can be squeezed. From my experiences with it on othr systems, and the difference a bit of tuning can make Id hazzard a guess it could be maybe 10-20% either side of a stock a1200 without fastram (depending on the game).

Big difference between a similarly specced G4 vs. an x86 system with euae (favoring x86 of course). Hopefully this will change eventually, but if the "progress" reported thus far for the ppc jit 68k emulator is anything to go by I wouldnt hold my breath unfortunately.
I thought Aladdin 4D would run on MorphOS without E-UAE? I have not yet tried to install and run it on my MorphOS systems, but have been planning on trying it soon.

As for which would be the fastest G4 PowerMac to run MorphOS on, I have decided to upgrade my dual 1.25GHz MDD PowerMac to a dual 1.42GHz G4 processor board and possibly overclock it to 1.5GHz or 1.67GHz. Most, if not all of the third party accelerated G4 processors for the MDD models of PowerMacs do not have any L3 cache. The performance of the 1.8GHz G4 (which is the fastest you can get for the MDD G4 PowerMacs) is probably slower than the 1.42GHz overclocked to 1.5GHz or 1.67GHz with it's L3 cache, depending on what type of benchmarks you are running.

If you can get a MDD G4 PowerMac with a 1.8GHz accelerated G4 board in it for a decent price, I would say go for it, but if you have to pay a $200 to $350 premium for that accelerated G4 board, I would suggest doing like I am and getting the stock dual 1.42GHz G4 processor board with the 2mb of L3 cache (which I found for only $50) and if you want more speed, overclock it a bit.

There is one or more 2.0GHz G4 accelerators for the Quicksilver G4 PowerMacs, but then you are using a computer with a slower bus and memory, so I doubt it would be much faster than even a stock 1.42GHz G4 MDD PowerMac.

I would like to see a complete list of several different benchmark results for all of the different G4 PowerMac possible combinations and speeds.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

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I thought Aladdin 4D would run on MorphOS without E-UAE? I have not yet tried to install and run it on my MorphOS systems, but have been planning on trying it soon.
It's about the game Aladdin, not the 3d rendering application.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

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If you can get a MDD G4 PowerMac with a 1.8GHz accelerated G4 board in it for a decent price, I would say go for it, but if you have to pay a $200 to $350 premium for that accelerated G4 board, I would suggest doing like I am and getting the stock dual 1.42GHz G4 processor board with the 2mb of L3 cache (which I found for only $50) and if you want more speed, overclock it a bit.
I thought MOS doesn't support multithreading? Not a whole lot of point in getting a dual-processor box if that's the case, unless it's simply to make overclocking easier.

Quote:
I would like to see a complete list of several different benchmark results for all of the different G4 PowerMac possible combinations and speeds.
GeekBench has a broad variety of user-submitted benchmark results for PPC Macs, don't know if you'll find any results from machines with third-party accelerators, though.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

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Originally Posted by haywirepc View Post
And can someone tell me at 1.25ghz can you run very demanding aga games in uae in morphos without any lag?

Can't do that on 1.25ghz-2ghz intel or amd pc, with winuae without lag city (at least for very demanding 68k games) but I don't know much about g4 or mac hardware in general..
If you can't do it with WinUAE on a x86 you sure won't be able to do it on E-UAE on a similar clocked PPC. PPC isn't magic, and can't overcome the limitations of E-UAE.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

mdd dual 1.42 fw800 fast there is bog standard. they brought these back after the release of the G5.

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Old 11-04-2011, 01:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: Fastest powermac g4 to run morphOS on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haywirepc View Post

And can someone tell me at 1.25ghz can you run very demanding aga games in uae in morphos without any lag?

Can't do that on 1.25ghz-2ghz intel or amd pc, with winuae without lag city (at least for very demanding 68k games) but I don't know much about g4 or mac hardware in general.
Super Stardust AGA used to run full speed on my Pentium III 1.0ghz Compaq laptop with 8mb ATI graphics years ago.
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