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Author Topic: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500  (Read 6658 times)

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Offline CodeHunterTopic starter

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Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« on: June 30, 2011, 06:55:10 AM »
Hello all,

How hard is it? I just got 4 A500s (one of them in great condition, but with 1.2 and the rest in really bad shape, but working and on Kickstart 1.3)

I am tempted to open one of those bad shaped ones (well I already did!) and remove its 1.3 Kickstart ROM and replace it with my good A500's 1.2.

The thing is, I am not sure which chip is the real kickstart on A500. do you have a picture of motherboard which clearly shows it?

Also, for some reason the metal shield on the one that I removed its cover got bent and I don't think that I ever be able to replace it back. I am afraid that I will be doing the same with my good A500, when I am removing the cover and its metallic shield. Do I really needs this shield, if I am keeping my A500 at room-temperature?

Oh, and is 1.3 THE most compatible Kickstart, or should I stay with my 1.2 on my A500?

Thanks a million again!

UPDATE 1: OK I found this image. Which one is the Kickstart ROM chip?
http://www.freemansgarage.com/stuff/P1010006.JPG
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 07:25:56 AM by CodeHunter »
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Offline Jiffy

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 07:24:34 AM »
Quote from: CodeHunter;647709
Hello all,

How hard is it?

It's the easiest upgrade you can imagine on the inside of a computer. Take a small flat bladed screw driver and carefully pry the chip out of its socket. Don't lift one side of the chip out of its socket all at once or you might break some of the pins, but alternate sides and lift it bit by bit. The code word is 'careful'.

When you removed the old chip, carefully align the pins of the new chip on the socket and push it in. Mind the orientation of the new chip as it needs to be the same as the old one. Don't turn it around or you might damage it!

Quote
The thing is, I am not sure which chip is the real kickstart on A500. do you have a picture of motherboard which clearly shows it?

The most important chip sockets on the A500's motherboard have their function written on the motherboard. Look for the socket named 'ROM'. That's the one you need.

Quote
Do I really needs this shield, if I am keeping my A500 at room-temperature?

No.

Quote
Oh, and is 1.3 THE most compatible Kickstart, or should I stay with my 1.2 on my A500?

If you're looking for games, 1.3 is by far THE most compatible Kickstart.
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Offline CodeHunterTopic starter

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 07:52:40 AM »
Yes, mostly for games. So how come this guys swears by 1.2 being the MOST compatible Kickstart then?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32795
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Offline ognix

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 10:04:56 AM »
In my opinion 1.2 is THE most compatible one, speaking about games (really old ones, until 1990).
I remember in those times people with "new bought " A500 with 1.3 having problems loading some games.

Moreover, but I should investigate, there maybe some problems/little modification for upgrading old A500 motherboards (rev.5) to KS 1.3 (if I'm not wrong it's just a pin). Same stuff if you want to "downgrade" an A500 with 1.3 to 1.2 (but I'm NOT completely sure - anyway you won't hurt anything if you place the chip correctly; just won't boot).

BY!
 

Offline tone007

Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 01:14:23 PM »
Quote from: ognix;647721
Moreover, but I should investigate, there maybe some problems/little modification for upgrading old A500 motherboards (rev.5) to KS 1.3 (if I'm not wrong it's just a pin).


I think that's only for 2.0 or higher ROMs.
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Offline gunni

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 01:23:14 PM »
Quote from: CodeHunter;647709
Hello all,

The thing is, I am not sure which chip is the real kickstart on A500. do you have a picture of motherboard which clearly shows it?
http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo2.pl?id=a500&pg=1&res=hi&lang=en is decent image... left hand side next to the CPU with numbering "315093-01" Don't quote me but I believe -01 is 1.2 ROM and -02 for 1.3 ROM. The swap should be simple enough - I put kick 2 in my 500 without any prior experience and it's working!

Quote from: CodeHunter;647709
UPDATE 1: OK I found this image. Which one is the Kickstart ROM chip?
http://www.freemansgarage.com/stuff/P1010006.JPG
cant see the chip in that pic but the socket has a ribbon cable coming from it to what I assume is a kickstart switcher.
 

Offline fordp

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 02:18:43 PM »
Quote from: Jiffy;647710
It's the easiest upgrade you can imagine on the inside of a computer. Take a small flat bladed screw driver and carefully pry the chip out of its socket. Don't lift one side of the chip out of its socket all at once or you might break some of the pins, but alternate sides and lift it bit by bit. The code word is 'careful'.


As an alternative to the screwdriver approach, you might try a cheap IC extractor. To pull the ROM I had bend the extractor out a bit before attaching it as they are normally meant for smaller chips. You still want to carefully rock the chip back and forth out of the socket. But I've found this approach a bit easier than the screwdriver method.

My extractor looks like this http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_16838_-1
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 02:37:16 PM »
There are some games that didn't like 1.3 but they are very old and rare.
IMO 1.3 and a 512k expansion (with a disable switch) is going to give you the best all round compatibility.

Jiffy's answer is spot on for all your other queries.
 

Offline x303

Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 07:16:31 PM »
Quote from: tone007;647726
I think that's only for 2.0 or higher ROMs.
When buying the 2.04 rom you had to cut the attached (welded) patchcable above a certain revision, else leave it untouched (if I remember well).
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 07:17:30 PM by x303 »
 

Offline tone007

Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 07:34:06 PM »
Quote from: fordp;647734
But I've found this approach a bit easier than the screwdriver method.


I've had the exact opposite experience, that type of extractor pretty much relies on brute force whereas a screwdriver (or small pocketknife) uses easily controlled (and limited) leverage.  A few mm on the left, a few mm on the right, repeat maybe once and the chip is out.

..not to confuse that useless extractor with a quality PLCC extractor which you really shouldn't do without in the event you need to extract a PLCC chip.
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Offline save2600

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 07:43:09 PM »
Quote from: tone007;647764
I've had the exact opposite experience, that type of extractor pretty much relies on brute force whereas a screwdriver (or small pocketknife) uses easily controlled (and limited) leverage.  A few mm on the left, a few mm on the right, repeat maybe once and the chip is out.

..not to confuse that useless extractor with a quality PLCC extractor which you really shouldn't do without in the event you need to extract a PLCC chip.


Couldn't agree more. And if you ignore what Tone said and try to attack it in the center to pry out the chip, you'll end up boring the blade down which could accidentally cut some traces on the board  :(

The "brute force" extractor I only use on small-ish chips. Something as large as the Kickstart chip and you're asking for trouble as it often slips, screws the pins up worse AND ends up piercing your fingers  :mad:
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 07:46:27 PM by save2600 »
 

Offline LaserBack

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2011, 09:45:59 PM »
codehunter

kickstart 1.2 is the best kickstart for the A500 and it is the most compatible for games
lot of old games from 1985 to 1988 fails to work on kick 1.3
there is no game that works on kick 1.3 but doesn't works on kick 1.2
 

Offline TjLaZer

Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2011, 10:42:58 PM »
Quote from: LaserBack;647788
codehunter

kickstart 1.2 is the best kickstart for the A500 and it is the most compatible for games
lot of old games from 1985 to 1988 fails to work on kick 1.3
there is no game that works on kick 1.3 but doesn't works on kick 1.2


I wouldn't say a lot.  But some for sure.  I agree 1.2 is the best for game compatibility and if the OP is not going to ever install a Hard Disk to this A500 he should stick to 1.2  KS 1.3 adds autobooting for HD's.
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Offline TjLaZer

Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2011, 10:46:12 PM »
Quote from: CodeHunter;647709
Hello all,

How hard is it? I just got 4 A500s (one of them in great condition, but with 1.2 and the rest in really bad shape, but working and on Kickstart 1.3)


It's extremely easy.  I would get a $10 IC extractor tool from Radio Shack though.  Using a flat head screwdriver is ok but you can damage the PCB and plastic socket with it if not extra careful.  The IC extractor allows you to pop it out easily with no damage.  But you have to align it just right and pull straight up otherwise you can pull the chip out lop sided and bend some pins, but thats ok as you can straighten then no problem
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Offline Retro_71

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Re: Swapping 1.2 with 1.3 Kickstart ROM on A500
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2011, 12:39:20 AM »
I have always used a small screw driver without any propblems all you have to do is be careful and not try and get the whole of one side off at the one time.
What about a rom switcher? that way you can have at least 2 roms and with a flick of a switch your ready to go.
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