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Amiga Marketplace This forum is here so that members can alert other members to Amiga items they've seen on eBay (or other auctions). If you are selling Amiga items on eBay, you might let us know about them here. Likewise, if you're selling Amiga items sans eBay, this is the "for sale" forum.

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Old 05-28-2011, 07:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by ck007 View Post
I'm failing to see why classic hardware is still pulling in such high prices. Software is so much more advanced these days that you can't do anything productive.

You can't read/write Office 2003/2010 documents (which is the standard), there isn't a proper web browser.

Apart from wasting time and tinkering, what else can this kit be used for?

If you're into games, I can see the merit in paying $50 for an old A500, but not paying $1000+ when you can buy a desktop or laptop that could do so much more?!?!?

Is it just me, or does logic fly out the window when it comes to the Amiga community?
Its just you. I use my A4000/csppc with mediator daily to do everything from listen to mp3's to handle my web store emails.View pdf's(well most).The mediator gives me 100MB ethernet,SB128 and a 1280x1024x32 workbench.Even tho the browser is old,Ibrowse still works for paying all my credit card bills and with my bank just fine.I print to a color xerox laser with netprinter.device fine.I still like picshow over many picture viewers on most platforms.dvd burning is handled with fryingpan or crazy franko's utilities. using 2-32gb cf's on the UWSCSI chain as hard drives makes it pretty quick and reliable(21MB/s!).Deneb makes using usb anything a breeze.It actually reads pictures in off my sony camera as fast as the 3ghz dell near me.Don't get me wrong,a a bit more speed would always be nice.
I actually get stuff done since i'm not rebooting from updates every 5 minutes
I honestly don't have any need for word documents,so this may be a point of contention to some.
Its costly to do this,but i take good care of my stuff and i have no worries it will bring the price i paid for it easily(i will never sell it...but if i do .
Best of all theres virtually no virus trouble ever(i call it security thru obscurity .
Obviously your results would be half as good on a A1200 which is signifigantly slower with simular expansions because of the bottlenecks and the blizzardppc 32 bit ram addressing and old narrow scsi vs the csppc 64bit memory addressing + UWSCSI and well as mediator bottlenecks..

So when people like you say its not usefull,i just have to think you have a total lack of imagination. You just need to use what works for you and quit obsessing over what it is.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:19 AM   #22
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by B00tDisk View Post
I used to think that the A3000/T and A4000/T CPU connectors were these rare beasts but somewhere in my multi-hundreds of bookmarks I've got a source for the pin edge connectors for those things.

I think the A1200 edge connectors are a bit harder to source though (they probably have to be custom built)
You'll have to PM me a few of the better sources for those. The only real problem with new PPC accelerators would be obtaining good design documentation/schematics. We could actually build faster units (and possibly add more memory).
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:31 AM   #23
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos View Post
Obsolete parts (and pretty much all parts on the CSPPC are obsolete by now) often have an extremly high asking price when bought NOS.

Then you would need to organize production and end up with a product that can't be sold legally in the EU (unless you do miracle work in turning 15++ years old part RoHS-compatible).

Also remember that the prices are only so high because the small group of potential buyers is meet with an even smaller group of potential sellers.

Just won't work buisness wise.
Are the Europeans really going to enforce RoHS rules on a limited number of hobbyist built devices?
And every time I think an old component is unobtainable or way too high priced, I find a source for them.

And believe it or not there are some 68060s that are RoHS-compatible (although most lack FPU and MMU).
A PPC replacement that is RoHS-compatible should not be nearly as hard as both Applied Micro and Freescale still have older lines in production or available.

Before you completely discount the idea, it ought to be examined.
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Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

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Old 05-28-2011, 08:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
You'll have to PM me a few of the better sources for those. The only real problem with new PPC accelerators would be obtaining good design documentation/schematics. We could actually build faster units (and possibly add more memory).
I'm not finding the link; I think I saw it posted at EAB (always a good go-to for that sort of thing).

if you ask in support.hardware there's bound to be someone who remembers. It may have been Alex H. who posted it up.

Point being, I took one look at the connector and had an "Oh my god, that's really the right one!" moment.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:49 AM   #25
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

@iggy

This is surely way over head for pure hobbist and as soon as you make any kind of buisness out of it your bound bind the law (and yes thats a goog thing).

Neither Applied Micro nor Freescale over 100% pincompatible and RoHS friendly 603/604s and a redisign would blow costs out of water (mind you "we" will probraly also fail at getting the pcb-layout from Phase5/DCE anyways).

If you think that is simple, just look back at all the effort Jens had to put into his rather simple 030 bases ACA-cards.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by ck007 View Post
I'm failing to see why classic hardware is still pulling in such high prices. Software is so much more advanced these days that you can't do anything productive.

You can't read/write Office 2003/2010 documents (which is the standard), there isn't a proper web browser.

Apart from wasting time and tinkering, what else can this kit be used for?

If you're into games, I can see the merit in paying $50 for an old A500, but not paying $1000+ when you can buy a desktop or laptop that could do so much more?!?!?

Is it just me, or does logic fly out the window when it comes to the Amiga community?
@ ck007

Office 2003/2010 documents !!! erm... what are those... !!!

They may be the "standard" in your house but I have never in 30 years of using computers ever had to use them (nor even know what they are but I can guess)... so just what makes you think they are the "standard" for everyone...

PS: if you wanna talk "standards" then FinalWriter would be the "standard" that I use...

Wasting time, tinkering & playing games... maybe that's all you've ever used an Amiga for, then fine, plenty of other folk put them to far more useful purposes than that...

I use my Amiga's for all computing purposes except the net, this includes things such as DTP, Printing, Creating Audio, Creating Gfx, Editing Photos, Creating MP3s & Music Cd's, Burning CD's & DVD's, Letter Writing, programing, playing the occasional game, tinkering, Video work and a whole host of other stuff...

So YES I would say it's JUST YOU, nothing illogical about using Amiga's, sure it may be a bit more expensive but when you want the best you have to pay for it, simple as that...
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:21 AM   #27
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos View Post
@iggy

This is surely way over head for pure hobbist and as soon as you make any kind of buisness out of it your bound bind the law (and yes thats a goog thing).

Neither Applied Micro nor Freescale over 100% pincompatible and RoHS friendly 603/604s and a redisign would blow costs out of water (mind you "we" will probraly also fail at getting the pcb-layout from Phase5/DCE anyways).

If you think that is simple, just look back at all the effort Jens had to put into his rather simple 030 bases ACA-cards.
Yes, I'd absolutely agree with you that where this whole proposal collapses is in obtaining Phase5's schematics or PCB layouts.
As far as redesign goes, I'm not your typical hobbyist in that I have some rather expensive design and layout software and I used to work for a company that built its own 68K based systems.
And yes, I was actually proposing a redesign to use compatible (but not pin compatible) PPCs.
Sounds horribly complicated, but with the right software its actually just tedious and time consuming.
At one point, before the MorphOS team adopted G4 Mac support, I'd completed about 50% of the work to convert a Freescale MPC8640 design to use an ATI SB600 (instead of a Uli Southbridge). Now THAT was difficult.
I don't think this would be as hard, except for one qualifier (two actually). The design would have to remain completely Phase5 software compatible. And, if I'm not mistaken, it violates the MorphOS development teams terms of agreement to use their software on boards built by other companies.

So, I'll place this one on the back burner, and accumulate data and suppliers list for it.
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Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:28 AM   #28
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechy View Post
Its just you. I use my A4000/csppc with mediator daily to do everything from listen to mp3's to handle my web store emails.View pdf's(well most).The mediator gives me 100MB ethernet,SB128 and a 1280x1024x32 workbench.Even tho the browser is old,Ibrowse still works for paying all my credit card bills and with my bank just fine.I print to a color xerox laser with netprinter.device fine.I still like picshow over many picture viewers on most platforms.dvd burning is handled with fryingpan or crazy franko's utilities. using 2-32gb cf's on the UWSCSI chain as hard drives makes it pretty quick and reliable(21MB/s!).Deneb makes using usb anything a breeze.It actually reads pictures in off my sony camera as fast as the 3ghz dell near me.Don't get me wrong,a a bit more speed would always be nice.
I actually get stuff done since i'm not rebooting from updates every 5 minutes
I honestly don't have any need for word documents,so this may be a point of contention to some.
Its costly to do this,but i take good care of my stuff and i have no worries it will bring the price i paid for it easily(i will never sell it...but if i do .
Best of all theres virtually no virus trouble ever(i call it security thru obscurity .
Obviously your results would be half as good on a A1200 which is signifigantly slower with simular expansions because of the bottlenecks and the blizzardppc 32 bit ram addressing and old narrow scsi vs the csppc 64bit memory addressing + UWSCSI and well as mediator bottlenecks..

So when people like you say its not usefull,i just have to think you have a total lack of imagination. You just need to use what works for you and quit obsessing over what it is.
I've been looking for a long time trying to find someone with a legacy system that was powerful enough for typical daily use. Congratulations on proving me wrong (as I've often contested that legacy hardware just couldn't compete with NG systems for daily use).
One of the points you make is very valid. An expanded 4000 would be much more competent then an expanded 1200. Which makes the idea of new PPC accelerators for 3000s and 4000s attractive.
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Sinner no more - sold the tablet.

Purchased a 1.8 GHz G5 PowerMac for now (and I have 2.3 PCI-E G5 PowerMac for future revisions of MorphOS).

Also I still have a 1.42 GHz iBook (with MorphOS 3.4).

Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin

"I'm a hard worker." - George W. Bush

"Guess I'll have to change my way of livin..."

Kenny Downing is my God.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:19 AM   #29
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko View Post
@ ck007


They may be the "standard" in your house but I have never in 30 years of using computers ever had to use them

PS: if you wanna talk "standards" then FinalWriter would be the "standard" that I use...
M$ Office documents are so widespread in their use that they have become the global standard. That's a fact, whether you choose to accept it or not.
OpenOffice goes some way towards bridging this standard because it offers a degree of compatibility with M$ Office documents. OpenOffice for the Amiga will be very welcome, if we ever get it.

The M$ Office standard may not be an issue for someone whose career/job doesn't involve interaction with computers (or someone who perhaps doesn't have to work at all), but for everyone else M$ Office compatibility is very important.

AH.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:27 AM   #30
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
Wow! If they're worth that much why hasn't somebody figured out how to clone them?
The problem is that they're only worth that much to a very small number of classic Amiga enthusiasts. If these were to be re-manufactured in significant numbers (significant as taken to mean >200 for example), then no company would be able to shift them all for that much. The price would have to come down significantly, to <500 I would guess.

Re-manufacturing the old BPPC and CSPPC cards would be the cheapest way to go, but this would involve obtaining all of the design information. It would be good if we could obtain this information (even from a self interest point of view), but I doubt they will ever release it unfortunately, which is a shame.
Assuming we did obtain all the information necessary to re-manufacture the boards, then we'd have all kinds of obselecence and Rohs compliance issues to deal with as Kronos has already mentioned.

The better way forwards would be to develop a completely new PPC accelerator. But then you're talking about significant design costs, which would need to be recouperated in sales. There's probably not enough money in the current market to do that, and that's why nobody has come up with a PPC replacement so far.

It seemed like Elbox had got pretty far with their SharkPPC cards. I'm not sure why these never gor released, and it is a shame for sure.

AH
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:36 AM   #31
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

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Originally Posted by AppleHammer View Post
M$ Office documents are so widespread in their use that they have become the global standard. That's a fact, whether you choose to accept it or not.
It's not a case of whether I accept it or not, it's just down to the simple fact that I've never had to use any of these Word/Office documents in my life. So even if it's a fact or not, it simply doesn't apply to me or affect me...
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #32
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

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Originally Posted by Franko View Post
It's not a case of whether I accept it or not, it's just down to the simple fact that I've never had to use any of these Word/Office documents in my life. So even if it's a fact or not, it simply doesn't apply to me or affect me...
Yep that's fine - I can understand that it doesn't affect the average Scotsman living in his underground lair

AH
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:13 AM   #33
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleHammer View Post
The problem is that they're only worth that much to a very small number of classic Amiga enthusiasts. If these were to be re-manufactured in significant numbers (significant as taken to mean >200 for example), then no company would be able to shift them all for that much. The price would have to come down significantly, to <500 I would guess.

Re-manufacturing the old BPPC and CSPPC cards would be the cheapest way to go, but this would involve obtaining all of the design information. It would be good if we could obtain this information (even from a self interest point of view), but I doubt they will ever release it unfortunately, which is a shame.
Assuming we did obtain all the information necessary to re-manufacture the boards, then we'd have all kinds of obselecence and Rohs compliance issues to deal with as Kronos has already mentioned.

The better way forwards would be to develop a completely new PPC accelerator. But then you're talking about significant design costs, which would need to be recouperated in sales. There's probably not enough money in the current market to do that, and that's why nobody has come up with a PPC replacement so far.

It seemed like Elbox had got pretty far with their SharkPPC cards. I'm not sure why these never gor released, and it is a shame for sure.

AH
If I'm not mistaken SharkPPC cards were just modified Apple PCI accelerator cards.
A new PPC design would be attractive, but we'd have no software support.
Convincing Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to support such an effort would be very difficult.
However, when I look at the design for the original Efika, I'm inclined to agree with you.
We have the schematics for that. The Open Firmware would be difficult to reverse engineer. But a 256MB 400Mhz 5200B accelerator is doable and would be cheap.
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Purchased a 1.8 GHz G5 PowerMac for now (and I have 2.3 PCI-E G5 PowerMac for future revisions of MorphOS).

Also I still have a 1.42 GHz iBook (with MorphOS 3.4).

Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin

"I'm a hard worker." - George W. Bush

"Guess I'll have to change my way of livin..."

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Old 05-28-2011, 11:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

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Yep that's fine - I can understand that it doesn't affect the average Scotsman living in his underground lair

AH
If that last comment of yours weren't so true I could have gone on rant about it...
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:26 AM   #35
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

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It's not a case of whether I accept it or not, it's just down to the simple fact that I've never had to use any of these Word/Office documents in my life. So even if it's a fact or not, it simply doesn't apply to me or affect me...
That's fascinating. Not having used Word format documents is a little like never using a PDF. I have to agree its become a standard. I used to use Ami Pro, then Wordperfect, but Word just stream rolled right over its competitors.
I'm not sure Open Office is the best direction for us to head, but Word format support is essential.

BTW - What's this got to do with PPC accelerators?
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Sinner no more - sold the tablet.

Purchased a 1.8 GHz G5 PowerMac for now (and I have 2.3 PCI-E G5 PowerMac for future revisions of MorphOS).

Also I still have a 1.42 GHz iBook (with MorphOS 3.4).

Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin

"I'm a hard worker." - George W. Bush

"Guess I'll have to change my way of livin..."

Kenny Downing is my God.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:34 AM   #36
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
That's fascinating. Not having used Word format documents is a little like never using a PDF.

BTW - What's this got to do with PPC accelerators?
Not quite sure why that would be fascinating as I could name countless people I know who haven't done so either...

Until I got these iMacs last summer I had only ever used one PDF file (1940/42 Service Manual) that I downloaded on my sisters PC a number of years ago and that until last summer was the only PDF I had ever viewed and used on my Amiga...

BTW - this has got nothing to do with PPC accelerators, not quite sure how we got on to this subject...
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:54 AM   #37
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

>BTW - this has got nothing to do with PPC accelerators, not quite sure how we got on to this subject...

Like we ever stay on topic.
Actually, the only thing I've found essential with Word files is the ability to read them or convert them to a format I can edit on my own word processor.
This is why I find Open Office to be less then ideal. Its file conversions are often flawed.
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Also I still have a 1.42 GHz iBook (with MorphOS 3.4).

Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

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Old 05-28-2011, 11:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
If I'm not mistaken SharkPPC cards were just modified Apple PCI accelerator cards.
Were they indeed? I wasn't aware of that. If true, that probably explains why we saw evidence of boards that appeared quite complete, but we never saw an end product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy
A new PPC design would be attractive, but we'd have no software support.
Convincing Hyperion or the MorphOS development team to support such an effort would be very difficult.
The MorphOS team abandoned classic Amiga quite some time ago, so there would possibly be a significant amount of work involved in supporting a new PPC accelerated classic Amiga setup. If this is the case, then you could be right on that front.

But OS4 already has support for BPPC and CSPPC. I can't imagine a newer accelerator being that far away compatability-wise, so support from Hyperion probably isn't so far-fetched. In fact, I would imagine that any prospective PPC accelerator developer would try to obtain Hyperion's agreement for OS4 support before bothering to go ahead.

But this is all academic discussion really, because it's unlikely we'll see a new PPC accelerator for the classic Amiga. I'd love to see one, and would definitely be a potential buyer if one were produced, but unfortunately I don't think we're likely to see it

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Old 05-28-2011, 12:08 PM   #39
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

@ AppleHammer

Yeah, the thing that's troubling is a new design could be affordable (compared to making more Phase5 compatible cards).
Less software compatibility would also reduce their appeal.
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Sinner no more - sold the tablet.

Purchased a 1.8 GHz G5 PowerMac for now (and I have 2.3 PCI-E G5 PowerMac for future revisions of MorphOS).

Also I still have a 1.42 GHz iBook (with MorphOS 3.4).

Finally I still have an old A2000 for the days I'm into pain.

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." - Benjamin Franklin

"I'm a hard worker." - George W. Bush

"Guess I'll have to change my way of livin..."

Kenny Downing is my God.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: WTB: Cyberstorm PPC

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleHammer View Post
Re-manufacturing the old BPPC and CSPPC cards would be the cheapest way to go, but this would involve obtaining all of the design information. It would be good if we could obtain this information (even from a self interest point of view), but I doubt they will ever release it unfortunately, which is a shame.
Assuming we did obtain all the information necessary to re-manufacture the boards, then we'd have all kinds of obselecence and Rohs compliance issues to deal with as Kronos has already mentioned.
Someone, either here or at AW.net said they'd tracked down one of the chief designers of the P5 boards asking about that very thing (releasing the designs) and was quoted $200,000 as the lowest starting price for that info.
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