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View Poll Results: Would you have bought an amazing but non Amiga compatible machine circa 1993
Yes in circa 1993 I would have bought a non Amiga compatible machine. 43 59.72%
No in circa 1993 I wouldn't have bought a non Amiga compatible machine. 29 40.28%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2011, 12:07 PM   #41
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it



I don't think I would have jumped ship in 93. By that time, for good or ill, the pc was pretty much the standard. That was not the case when I bought my 1000 in 87 or so. Back then, jumping from the Atari 800 to the Amiga was a big leap in power, but there was no particular reason to pick any of several contenders except for the focus each machine had. Amiga with multimedia, Mac with publishing and the PC with early business stuff.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:26 PM   #42
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

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Originally Posted by JimS View Post


I don't think I would have jumped ship in 93. By that time, for good or ill, the pc was pretty much the standard. That was not the case when I bought my 1000 in 87 or so. Back then, jumping from the Atari 800 to the Amiga was a big leap in power, but there was no particular reason to pick any of several contenders except for the focus each machine had. Amiga with multimedia, Mac with publishing and the PC with early business stuff.
I think if you go read infoworld magazine (the entire catalog of issues is online at google books) you'll find that as early as '87 the PC was pretty entrenched as a business machine. As terrible as it was, Windows 1.0 had been out for two years and late '87 saw Windows 2.0. VGA Standard came with the IBM PS/2 in April of '87.

Meanwhile, by 1987, Apple had released the Mac II with a faster CPU than the A2000 and support onboard SCSI as standard (you had to buy a card for the A2000).

C= was starting their long, slow-motion fumble by then by not following up the Amiga's stunning debut with more improvements, instead content to rest on their laurels and let 3rd party devs come up with a use for the Amiga (and support hardware likewise). OCS should have been gone, but ECS was still three years out.

Things were a lot more dynamic than "Well the Amiga ruled the roost from '85 to '94 then C= fell and suddenly PCs appeared." (I know that's not what you're suggesting but there's a lot of that sentiment around - and I say that as someone who scoffed at the PC world from '87 to '94!)
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Franko, keep in mind that if Commodore had won the PC wars with the Amiga, the Amiga would not have been something a bit special & different and it would have been same old, same old...
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:30 PM   #44
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

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Franko, keep in mind that if Commodore had won the PC wars with the Amiga, the Amiga would not have been something a bit special & different and it would have been same old, same old...
Even if that had been these case and Amiga had won, it would never have been the same old, same old. As the with the Amiga's OS there has never been anything like it before or since...

The Amiga still to this day has the smallest, most efficient and least resource hungry OS of any comparable home computer...

Compare it to Mac OSX 10.5 nearly 200,000 files just for a basic install and even with 2.5GB of memory it still has to use the HD as virtual RAM, no other computer even comes close to matching the Amiga's highly efficient OS...
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Who gives a damn? Terabytes of HD space, gigabytes of RAM, gigabytes of video card RAM.

S100 bus-based IMSAI users with 5mb hard drives, 24k of RAM and paper-tape readers would have viewed Amiga OS 1.3 as effete.

Mac OS 1.0 ran in 128k; the A1000 shipped with 256 (but needed 512mb for apps as a practicality). Was MacOS 4x better than the A1000 then?
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:52 PM   #46
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

1977 C= PET
1982 C= 64
1986 C= Amiga 1000
1990 C= ALL machines same technology as A1000
1994 C= bankrupt after small advancements of AGA in 91/92

The rot started in 86 when Los Gatos was closed an A1000 not marketed in 86 due to the A500/2000 projects running late into 1987. Commodore failed to jump to a revolutionary paradigm by 92/93 unlike the half decade revolutions they ushered in all their computer producing past.

I don't know what it should have been, but not AGA which wasted resource on keeping chipset OCS compatible.

Perhaps they should have licensed the Acorn A3010 Archimedes design....Acorn would have been a cheap acquisition in 90/91. 399 bought you effectively an A4000/030 power machine in 92....sobering thought no? 80386 33mhz speed polygon games AND AGA quality 2D games technically on paper with 4x more sound channels in 16bit quality.

With a Commodore badge that machine would have attracted the talented games programmers it deserved too.
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Quote:
Originally Posted by B00tDisk View Post
Who gives a damn? Terabytes of HD space, gigabytes of RAM, gigabytes of video card RAM.

S100 bus-based IMSAI users with 5mb hard drives, 24k of RAM and paper-tape readers would have viewed Amiga OS 1.3 as effete.

Mac OS 1.0 ran in 128k; the A1000 shipped with 256 (but needed 512mb for apps as a practicality). Was MacOS 4x better than the A1000 then?
You may not give a damn, but I do...

What the frig has Terabytes of HD space got to do with it...

The point is, using an HD as RAM (as well as wearing out the HD quicker) it's slower and less efficient than using physical RAM...

But if your happy with that, then that's your problem not mine...
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:35 PM   #48
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

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Originally Posted by B00tDisk View Post
Who gives a damn? Terabytes of HD space, gigabytes of RAM, gigabytes of video card RAM.
The hell with that. If you only view increasing hardware specs as an excuse for code to get sloppier, what the hell good is it? All you're doing is wasting what should be a mind-boggling bounty.
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:48 PM   #49
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Quote:
Who gives a damn? Terabytes of HD space, gigabytes of RAM, gigabytes of video card RAM.

S100 bus-based IMSAI users with 5mb hard drives, 24k of RAM and paper-tape readers would have viewed Amiga OS 1.3 as effete.

Mac OS 1.0 ran in 128k; the A1000 shipped with 256 (but needed 512mb for apps as a practicality). Was MacOS 4x better than the A1000 then?
1986 Workbench 1.1/1.2 was light years ahead of EVERYTHING this side of a UNIX server. Multitasking, different resolution screens per application to save memory, GUI that worked, 1:1 mapping of file location in GUI and physical location on disk, sophisticated text to speech, full access to Agnus/Paula/Denise features with OS still resident.

Then comes the killer..... IFF standard for sound, images and animation.

THIS is why nothing came close to Amiga in the mid 80s, NOTHING and why A1000 was the only machine in the history of personal/home computing to slaughter all in its path. As for memory it was application data NOT Workbench/Kickstart OS overhead that needed more RAM than inferior rivals, same reason you can't edit a 20 megapixel image on a 512mb Mac/PC. One single 21bit full PAL overscan image Digiview processed down to lo-res HAM from the buffer took more than the maximum RAM of a monochrome Mac costing 200% the RRP of A1000.

1984 Mac OS was barely more sophisticated than C64's GEOS + 1351 mouse and was silent and colourless so 128k was enough for that singletasking Apple fashionista 2500 wank. The 520ST ass raped the original Mac on every level possible (price/performance/speed,colour/OS,max res, appearace) within months...total wipeout....and STs 8mhz CPU is the only aspect it exceeds Amiga.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Hi,

The reason I bought an Amiga 1000 2 weeks after it hit the market was that my Otrana attache computer finally died and I really didn't need a portable anymore. I was doing Lotus 123 and Dbase programs for the military and banks (yes you Amiga fiends, PC's had programmable programs back then) I was finishing up a program management system for the Navy back then, when I saw the Amiga, I saw a lot of power, with the new graphics and sound and then the salesman told me it would run msdos programs, this sold me on it, and I bought it. At first I used Lotus 123 and Dbase on the Transformer, then later I used VIP professional and dbman to do my programs. So I will say yes if Commodore brought out another kick butt machine I would of bought it, after all unlike Franko, I see the computer as a tool to use to accomplish your work, and if the Amiga still does it, why waste money, but then again I am a power user therefore today I use a 6 core AMD machine using a bloated slow OS called Windows, for gaming and Ubuntu OS for stability and keeping my data, music and pictures. I use my A4000 to keep a backup of all my data and oh yeah play some of its rock and roll games.
Amiga Forever rocks and I use it daily, why waste silicon power on the Amiga 4000 to play games. Still like the Amiga, and wouldn't trade it for anything, although I am thinking of selling my Amiga's, just to get up money for the wife just in case I expire, wouldn't want her to throw them away, or sell them for $5 or $10, now would we.

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:59 PM   #51
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Hi Smerf...

Sorry but I've got to say cobblers to that...

Why... well, I too am a "power user", I too need a computer that has stability, I too need a computer for keeping all my data, music and pictures and a whole lot more besides...

BUT... I don't need a 6 core AMD machine using bloated Windoze to do that, no siree, I have a much better machine that does all that... wanna know what it is...

It's a Commodore A1200...

PS: If your thinking of expiring and wanna get some real money for your gear to tide the wife over, then I'll give you a fair price for em (provided you can deliver of course)...

PPS: Military, Banks... you must know some good secrets, c'mon spill the beans, I won't tell anyone, it's only me and you that read this rubbish anyways so who's gonna know...

PPPS: Amiga forever is good but it's not much cop for a real Amiga User...

Cheers

Franko

SIDE NOTE: Why's it been so ruddy quiet and boring round here this week, has everyone died...
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Quote:
Originally Posted by B00tDisk View Post
I think if you go read infoworld magazine (the entire catalog of issues is online at google books) you'll find that as early as '87 the PC was pretty entrenched as a business machine. As terrible as it was, Windows 1.0 had been out for two years and late '87 saw Windows 2.0. VGA Standard came with the IBM PS/2 in April of '87.
Good points all, but I'm thinking that as a home/hobbyist computer when the Amiga was announced, the pc was off most people's radar. It was just too expensive, and aimed at the business market. By 93 I don't think commodore could have done anything.
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:16 PM   #53
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

One of the things I've always noticed here when it comes to folk trying to claim PCs were better back then, is how they conveniently forget that when you purchased an Amiga you didn't need to purchase a special monitor to use it...

The Amiga by design was created so that it would run straight off a household TV set with a perfect RGB picture unlike a PC which required you to purchase an expensive monitor either separately or as part of the package...

Perhaps when making such comparisons folks should take that glaring fact into account...
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:17 PM   #54
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

I may have bought a Commodore computer better than the Amiga but I would've wanted to know why drop the Amiga brand?

I loved my C64 and the jump to the Amiga 500 wasn't scary. My friends had them and it was a 'Commodore' Amiga 500! While the Amiga brand was running did we see any other Commodore computers? Nothing worth noticing, it was if when C bought Amiga the branding changed - Left Hand, Right Hand, Commodore Amiga.
I didn't own an Amiga 500, I owned a Commodore Amiga 500, in the same way I own a Commodore Amiga 4000, a Commodore Amiga 1200!
The original Amiga team we all know are legends! And it could have been an Atari Amiga, but I wonder how much trust we would have had in Amiga if it wasn't for Commodore buying it? Commodore were the best! You had a speccy but your mate had a C64! You know which one you wanted!
Now Commodore is long gone we crave the Amiga, with or without Commodore (without if Commodore - USA is anything to go by!).
Sad thing is guys, Jay is gone, Hi-Torro is too, Commodore-USA is another PC-clone shop, and Amiga? Amiga is a former shadow of what should have been great.

I make it sound like I think Commodore was great, but I'm kinda taking the Smeg here. We bought into the trust of the Commodore brand when Amiga was introduced, and once we were hooked you release that it was Commodore that was the poison.
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #55
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Oh, and one other thing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by B00tDisk View Post
Mac OS 1.0 ran in 128k; the A1000 shipped with 256 (but needed 512mb for apps as a practicality). Was MacOS 4x better than the A1000 then?
No. For starters, Mac OS up through System 6 didn't have even cooperative multitasking, let alone the Amiga's pre-emptive multitasking, and as for the memory requirements, even the Mac team knew that 128KB wasn't enough for practical use with more than one moderate-sized application and a document or two, which is why they designed the 128K Mac to be upgradable to 512KB, even though Jobs and Apple corporate made it difficult to get into in an attempt to force users to purchase a new "fat Mac" or pay for official upgrade service.
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #56
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

My "fond" memories from early PC's was the hassle to get anything actually running on them.
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:19 PM   #57
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko View Post
SIDE NOTE: Why's it been so ruddy quiet and boring round here this week, has everyone died...
Sorry Franko, I've been poncing around trying to do this kinda 'paperwork' thingy jobby, and get my workmates into some hardcore industrial action!
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:26 PM   #58
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

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Sorry Franko, I've been poncing around trying to do this kinda 'paperwork' thingy jobby, and get my workmates into some hardcore industrial action!
See that's what you get for being elected into the murky world of Politics, all that time you've got to spend now on paperwork fiddling your expenses...

Wow... "Hardcore" eh... when's the video getting released, hope it's as good as me German Porn collection...
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:31 PM   #59
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

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See that's what you get for being elected into the murky world of Politics, all that time you've got to spend now on paperwork fiddling your expenses...

Wow... "Hardcore" eh... when's the video getting released, hope it's as good as me German Porn collection...
Ah well there is some council paperwork to push around, but I'm also a union rep, god help me, and we are fighting for industrial action....if that happens there may well be a film, but I doubt you could ever call it 'porn'!

Having said that the germans will watch anything! A group of men stood around a burning bin with a van behind them and a tray of coffee [I don't like tea] and biscuits, smoking and swearing at management while cupping them selves and wearing vests [my personal choice!]
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:39 PM   #60
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Default Re: If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it

@ LordSpunky

Right on Brother...

POWER TO THE PEOPLE
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