»

[koaftder]

Have the rules changed?

[Franko]

In answer to part of your question IE: the Workbench disks... then... YES its not only cool it the right thing to do...

[Iggy]

For 3.0 and all earlier versions, its not only cool, it would appear to be completely legal.
For 3.1, as a test to the ownership of this property, yes its cool.
For 3.5 and 3.9, no there still partially owned by there developers and are still available on the commercial market.

[Iggy]

<link removed>

Free 3.1 KS floppy images.

[Matt_H]

Originally Posted by Iggy

For 3.0 and all earlier versions, its not only cool, it would appear to be completely legal.

According to who?

[Gulliver]

Originally Posted by Matt_H

According to who?

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost...4&postcount=24

[Matt_H]

Well, that covers 3.0. For the most part. Won't get into the technicalities.

I don't care about Amiga Inc or whatever shell company holds the official rights, but Cloanto and dealers sell the other OS versions, so they deserve the sales.

[desiv]

Has anything changed?
Apparently not..
You can say things like:

Originally Posted by From this site

Anyone capable of typing 'workbench31.zip' into Google has been able to download Workbench whenever they needed to for as long as I can remember anyway

.. And that's fine? There are multiple examples of that and no one complains..

There are also lots of posts of people telling people to get all types of ADFs and console ROMs complete with site names and links...

And there are people who won't admit that the only thing that really bugs them is the "who", not the what, and claim they are doing this only for the greater good (that apparently just came upon them based on their previous posts)...

Yeah, I'd say nothing has changed here..

desiv

[cgutjahr]

Originally Posted by Gulliver

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost...4&postcount=24

That simply means that Amiga Format has a license to put Workbench disks on their magazine CDs, it doesn't mean that Workbench disks are freely distributable now.

I don't get all the fuss. All this "let's pirate this stuff now!" hysteria is not going to change anything - Workbench disks will not be freely distributable unless the copyright owner (whoever that is) steps forward and says "go ahead".

Until that happens, the owner of any Amiga forum will be responsible for the links his users are posting. You might think "where's the risk?" - but however small the risk might be, it's the website owner's risk so he gets to decide.

With several companies arguing about who owns what exactly right now, some idiot might actually think it would be a clever move to show he's still defending his alleged property - and the easiest way to show that is to have your lawyers send mail to the next website admin. It wouldn't be the first time an Amiga enthusiast gets mail from Amiga Inc. or a similarly useless outlet.

Everybody with more than two working brain cells will find the Workbench and Kickstart files easily enough anyway. Personally, I can do without the people not meeting the "two brain cells" criteria.

[Retro_71]

You seem to think that would be a clever move BUT they still have to prove they are the owners of said product and if they are in a fight around about it it just proves that not one of them can actually prove they own it.
I have KS 1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 roms + i have disks for WB 1.3, 2.04, 3.0 and 3.1 BUT some in each set don't work so where is this person that owns WB so i can buy replacements from?
I love these so called copyright mafia (as Franko puts them) who are so in touch with the holder of the rights that they can speak for them... Wait a minute no one really know who that is and where these files are so am i to guess that you all are talking thru your ass?
I wonder how many copyright mafia ACTUALLY USE a classic Amiga?? must not be alot of them since their so high and mighty they don't need working WB disks.

[kolla]

For 3.5 and 3.9 it is not really possible, since they were never released on floppy, so no ADFs. It's cool to dump links to ISO images though

[Amiga_Nut]

Originally Posted by cgutjahr

That simply means that Amiga Format has a license to put Workbench disks on their magazine CDs, it doesn't mean that Workbench disks are freely distributable now.

I don't get all the fuss. All this "let's pirate this stuff now!" hysteria is not going to change anything - Workbench disks will not be freely distributable unless the copyright owner (whoever that is) steps forward and says "go ahead".

Until that happens, the owner of any Amiga forum will be responsible for the links his users are posting. You might think "where's the risk?" - but however small the risk might be, it's the website owner's risk so he gets to decide.

With several companies arguing about who owns what exactly right now, some idiot might actually think it would be a clever move to show he's still defending his alleged property - and the easiest way to show that is to have your lawyers send mail to the next website admin. It wouldn't be the first time an Amiga enthusiast gets mail from Amiga Inc. or a similarly useless outlet.

Everybody with more than two working brain cells will find the Workbench and Kickstart files easily enough anyway. Personally, I can do without the people not meeting the "two brain cells" criteria.

Which is pretty much what I said at the time. And even downloading Future Publishing's Amiga Format CD ISOs is illegal to be honest. If you don't believe me ask Polly who is the rights administrator and she will confirm it is not legal.

[cgutjahr]

Originally Posted by Retro_71

You seem to think that would be a clever move

Please go and reread my posting. I told you what they might think is a clever move, I'm talking about things they've already done in the past.

I love these so called copyright mafia [...] so am i to guess that you all are talking thru your ass?

You need to grow up and learn reading.

[Pentad]

Ack! I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time. However, let me clear up some misinformation here:

First let's talk about Intellectual Property and Copyright within the US.

Have you ever thought about how IP differs from PP (Physical Property)? Well, one is tangible and the other is not. This makes a BIG deal in the courts.

Copyright was created in 1790 (in the US) but did not cover computer code until the 1970s (no kidding). Databases were in the 1960s but that is entirely different than computer code.

Now, how does one get a Copyright?

A. Mounds of paperwork that need to be filed
B. Holding Franko hostage until the US Government relents (Sorry Franko :-)
C. Gobs of money
D. Nothing

D would be the correct answer

If I doodle on my paper placemat while waiting for my food from iHop that drawing is automatically copyrighted. Now, I have to proactively FIGHT for my copyright. Franko comes to my table while I'm in the restroom, steels my doodle and spends the next ten years selling in to famous places without a peep from me. Then I decide to sue, I am going to have a tough time defending my copyright as I think the court would rule its PD now. I.E. I did nothing to defend my Copyright for ten years...

Let's look at the Court:

Four Factors the Court Uses to determine Fair Use VS Copyright Infringement:

1. Nature and use of the material in terms of commercial or non-profit use

2. The nature of the copyrighted work. (Creative work has more protection than a factual based work).

3. Amount and significance of the work

4. The effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Of these four only one is weighted significantly more than the others. Care to guess? If you said 4 you are right!

You have to have Fair Use or the world would be more screwed up. Fair Use allows for reviews, advertisements, and just speaking about other people's work.

Now, if my doodle was awesome and I'm selling zillions of them all over the world but Franko put a thumbnail picture of it in a review of my doodle on his site that is Fair Use.

If he was making copies -full-size- and selling them then we would a problem.

Vice-Versa, I cannot put a copyrighted work in the PD and then change my mind later. Now, I saw somebody mention Polly and Copyright so lets examine that:

If Walnut Creek or Franko put together a disc of PD software for mass distribution then WC or Franko owns the copyright for the disc but not the contents of the disc. Also, I can't put an application on Franko's disc as PD or even shareware and then later decide that its commercial and sue people for using it without paying.

Further, Amiga, Petro, whoever, put their IP on a disc for mass distribution with a magazine and that Petro was not receiving residuals from (like a reseller). If the message from him was accurate in the post I saw here.

There is a term call Prior Art that comes into play here as well. I could say well Petro released it free to anyone and even put it on an Amiga Format Disc for distribution.



Great Tips:

1. If you are a college student you have carte-blanc! You can pretty much do anything with other copyrighted works and get away with it. Now let me put that in context: You are a struggling film student and you want to make your first movie but 'borrow' some music for your film or footage from other films you will get away with it.

The court is very sympathetic to struggling college students in writing, music, film, and theatre. Quentin Tarantino used to tell young filmmakers to take a class in college and then just make their first film. You get all the protection to show people what you can do.

2. How to defend your song, movie script, play, or novel for $1.00? A long time ago I was a film student (my first film was Sundance but I lost the Oscar for best picture) and this is how everybody does it on the cheap.

-Buy a mailing envelop
-Take your IP (song, movie script, whatever) and stick it in the envelop
-Mail it to yourself
-Read posts by Franko until your own package arrives
-DO NOT OPEN IT
-Take it to a bank or some place safe
-NEVER OPEN IT

Now submit your scripts or song to publishers. WAIT! What if they try to steal it (this happens all the time) they have more money than me! They could say they had the idea for the movie or song first! Not to worry, you can now sue them. But WAIT how will the court know that your script idea was first?? Did you know that unopened mail packages not only have a date and time stamp but the Court looks highly on the Postal System?

You claim that ACME stole you movie idea and here is the UNOPENED mail package that shows when you wrote your script before they did. Ta Da! You have won your case!

No kidding, this happens a lot. 'Coming to America' was won this way between the writer and Eddie Murphy.

Did you know that Deluxe Paint was a big deal in the world of Copyright? You see, EA said that anything drawn in DP was the property of EA. Users sued saying that what they did in DP was theirs. The Court sided with the users. I am shocked that EA would suggest such a thing but life was different in 1985 I guess...


Cheers!
-P

[TheBilgeRat]

Originally Posted by Pentad

Ack! I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time. However, let me clear up some misinformation here:

First let's talk about Intellectual Property and Copyright within the US.

Have you ever thought about how IP differs from PP (Physical Property)? Well, one is tangible and the other is not. This makes a BIG deal in the courts.

Copyright was created in 1790 (in the US) but did not cover computer code until the 1970s (no kidding). Databases were in the 1960s but that is entirely different than computer code.

Now, how does one get a Copyright?

A. Mounds of paperwork that need to be filed
B. Holding Franko hostage until the US Government relents (Sorry Franko :-)
C. Gobs of money
D. Nothing

D would be the correct answer

If I doodle on my paper placemat while waiting for my food from iHop that drawing is automatically copyrighted. Now, I have to proactively FIGHT for my copyright. Franko comes to my table while I'm in the restroom, steels my doodle and spends the next ten years selling in to famous places without a peep from me. Then I decide to sue, I am going to have a tough time defending my copyright as I think the court would rule its PD now. I.E. I did nothing to defend my Copyright for ten years...

Let's look at the Court:

Four Factors the Court Uses to determine Fair Use VS Copyright Infringement:

1. Nature and use of the material in terms of commercial or non-profit use

2. The nature of the copyrighted work. (Creative work has more protection than a factual based work).

3. Amount and significance of the work

4. The effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Of these four only one is weighted significantly more than the others. Care to guess? If you said 4 you are right!

You have to have Fair Use or the world would be more screwed up. Fair Use allows for reviews, advertisements, and just speaking about other people's work.

Now, if my doodle was awesome and I'm selling zillions of them all over the world but Franko put a thumbnail picture of it in a review of my doodle on his site that is Fair Use.

If he was making copies -full-size- and selling them then we would a problem.

Vice-Versa, I cannot put a copyrighted work in the PD and then change my mind later. Now, I saw somebody mention Polly and Copyright so lets examine that:

If Walnut Creek or Franko put together a disc of PD software for mass distribution then WC or Franko owns the copyright for the disc but not the contents of the disc. Also, I can't put an application on Franko's disc as PD or even shareware and then later decide that its commercial and sue people for using it without paying.

Further, Amiga, Petro, whoever, put their IP on a disc for mass distribution with a magazine and that Petro was not receiving residuals from (like a reseller). If the message from him was accurate in the post I saw here.

There is a term call Prior Art that comes into play here as well. I could say well Petro released it free to anyone and even put it on an Amiga Format Disc for distribution.



Great Tips:

1. If you are a college student you have carte-blanc! You can pretty much do anything with other copyrighted works and get away with it. Now let me put that in context: You are a struggling film student and you want to make your first movie but 'borrow' some music for your film or footage from other films you will get away with it.

The court is very sympathetic to struggling college students in writing, music, film, and theatre. Quentin Tarantino used to tell young filmmakers to take a class in college and then just make their first film. You get all the protection to show people what you can do.

2. How to defend your song, movie script, play, or novel for $1.00? A long time ago I was a film student (my first film was Sundance but I lost the Oscar for best picture) and this is how everybody does it on the cheap.

-Buy a mailing envelop
-Take your IP (song, movie script, whatever) and stick it in the envelop
-Mail it to yourself
-Read posts by Franko until your own package arrives
-DO NOT OPEN IT
-Take it to a bank or some place safe
-NEVER OPEN IT

Now submit your scripts or song to publishers. WAIT! What if they try to steal it (this happens all the time) they have more money than me! They could say they had the idea for the movie or song first! Not to worry, you can now sue them. But WAIT how will the court know that your script idea was first?? Did you know that unopened mail packages not only have a date and time stamp but the Court looks highly on the Postal System?

You claim that ACME stole you movie idea and here is the UNOPENED mail package that shows when you wrote your script before they did. Ta Da! You have won your case!

No kidding, this happens a lot. 'Coming to America' was won this way between the writer and Eddie Murphy.

Did you know that Deluxe Paint was a big deal in the world of Copyright? You see, EA said that anything drawn in DP was the property of EA. Users sued saying that what they did in DP was theirs. The Court sided with the users. I am shocked that EA would suggest such a thing but life was different in 1985 I guess...


Cheers!
-P

Quoted for sheer awesome.