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[cecilia]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42852700...sia/?gt1=43001

Al Arabiya TV reported that two of bin Laden's wives and four of his children were also captured during the operation.

The U.S. was conducting DNA testing and used facial recognition techniques to help formally identify him, Reuters reported. Results of the DNA tests were expected to be available in the next few days.

[Kronos]

Originally Posted by nicholas

Was Osama really responsible for the 911 carnage?

Perhaps not.......

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

OMFGOD.......

Maybe I should point you to a thread on aw.net where you can enhance MikeB's and Lou's theories about magnetism mayan and summerian doom-predictions and nostradamus with that crap.

Or in short if 9/11 was "controlled demolation" it was such a lousy job I would ask my money back.....

[TheBilgeRat]

Originally Posted by Kronos

OMFGOD.......

Maybe I should point you to a thread on aw.net where you can enhance MikeB's and Lou's theories about magnetism mayan and summerian doom-predictions and nostradamus with that crap.

Or in short if 9/11 was "controlled demolation" it was such a lousy job I would ask my money back.....

Well, between that response and the 9-11 truthers lies the actual truth, and that probably cannot be summed up in "It was only the planes that dropped those towers" and "By blowing up brown people in Iraq, we're making the world safe" or "Osama Bin Laden is Dead! that means the muslims will stop hating us for ****ing up their region of the world!"

If you think these wars were about Bin Laden and those towers coming down, I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Kansas.

[Kronos]

Originally Posted by TheBilgeRat

Well, between that response and the 9-11 truthers lies the actual truth, and that probably cannot be summed up in "It was only the planes that dropped those towers"

It was:


Fully fuled airplanes crashing in (allmost trough) those 2 towers.
- How did that happen ? Lousy intellegence work, nonexisting security at US aiports and a handfull of guys willing to die for false cause

How did it work ? Constructual deficits in the towers, most of the support beams around the supply-shafts destroyed plus some parts of the support beams in the fassade destroyed severly weakended the building. Those inner an outer support beams were only connected by the floor panels some of which failed either on impact or due to fire.

Now you have a building with a good portion of it's support beams gone while other have to bridge 2 3 or more floors instead of just 1 without being steadied by others. At this point the building was doomed and it would have fallen soone or later even without a fire (might have taken weeks or even years, but it would have collapsed). But there was a fire. A fire surely not hot enough to melt steel, but more than hot enough to weaken it. Heated stell under stress will 1st start getting "o-legged" but after it buckled out beyond it's base it would simply snap, putting more load on other support beams (who will than also fail).

The result is a self-collapsing as seen with the 2 towers. Nothing mystic about it.

Iraq is another matter, and a quite simple one, DoubleDumm wanted revenge on Saddam who had (politically) outlived and humilated his father and the oil was to be a nice icing on the cake.

[TheBilgeRat]

Originally Posted by Kronos

It was:
<snip>

That is certainly one explanation. Correct? who knows.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

As a pacifist, it feels wrong for me to cheer at military actions, but it does feel like a curse being lifted. A bit like the Fall of the Berlin Wall. As in: all will be better now, we can retreat now from Iraq and Afghanistan, the economy will be stimulated, progressive people in Yemen, Syria and Libya will be encouraged to speak out and do what's right for their country.
It gives hope.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by TheBilgeRat

Well, between that response and the 9-11 truthers lies the actual truth, and that probably cannot be summed up in "It was only the planes that dropped those towers" and "By blowing up brown people in Iraq, we're making the world safe" or "Osama Bin Laden is Dead! that means the muslims will stop hating us for ****ing up their region of the world!"

If you think these wars were about Bin Laden and those towers coming down, I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Kansas.

+1

"The middle way is ALWAYS the correct way" - Prophet Muhammad (pbuh& hf)

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Speelgoedmannetje

As in: all will be better now, we can retreat now from Iraq and Afghanistan.

I wish I could share your optimism, but I can't.

Since the real reason for invading Iraq was nothing to do with OBL anyway, I don't see the connection. There'll be a presence in Iraq for as long as the original reasons for invading still stand. Without getting embroiled into arguments about what that reason was, clearly it wasn't about WMD or regime change, they were the convenient excuses of their day. There were no WMD and the regime changed, but there's still a military presence.

As for staying in Afghanistan, well, there's always the "taliban". Somewhat of an umbrella term these days for any person there not totally satisfied with the present administration there.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by nicholas

"The middle way is ALWAYS the correct way" - Prophet Muhammad (pbuh& hf)

Careful with that generalisation. What he (saw) was actually referring to was avoiding extremes in life. As for the "middle way" always being the correct one, I can think of plenty of contrary examples

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Or they could say "well, we already buried him at sea..."

Ok, seriously they did that. It was an unconfirmed report earlier.

I'm frankly amazed. Anybody else wondering why the "most wanted man in the world" was suddenly killed (rather than captured for trial), and his remains dumped at sea before anybody independent could verify the claim?

You would think that under the circumstances, in this supposedly pivotal point in The War Against Terror they'd at least allow journalists to see the body and perhaps take a photograph or two before disposing of it. Remember when Saddam was caught? There was full (embedded) media coverage of that moment.

Yet, here's Osama, the #1 bad guy they've been hunting for a decade and it's all done and dusted out of sight of anybody. It doesn't exactly help discredit the suggestion that he's actually been dead for some time and they've simply exhumed him from somewhere and confirmed the DNA, does it?

[Templario]

Originally Posted by Claw22000

This is one of those times when you remember where you were. I was in my basement playing Jamepond 2 on my A1200. With the news on in the background.

Where were you?

Way to my job, making cars.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I wish I could share your optimism, but I can't.

I don't know whether I can share it with myself either, but I just need it sometimes, as optimism on itself is a fertile ground.

[TheBilgeRat]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Ok, seriously they did that. It was an unconfirmed report earlier.

I'm frankly amazed. Anybody else wondering why the "most wanted man in the world" was suddenly killed (rather than captured for trial), and his remains dumped at sea before anybody independent could verify the claim?

You would think that under the circumstances, in this supposedly pivotal point in The War Against Terror they'd at least allow journalists to see the body and perhaps take a photograph or two before disposing of it. Remember when Saddam was caught? There was full (embedded) media coverage of that moment.

Yet, here's Osama, the #1 bad guy they've been hunting for a decade and it's all done and dusted out of sight of anybody. It doesn't exactly help discredit the suggestion that he's actually been dead for some time and they've simply exhumed him from somewhere and confirmed the DNA, does it?

Well, that has been the issue all along, really. The towers come down, and all the debris is moved off site by people as quick as possible in the name of "closure." OBL is shot, killed, and dumped at sea.

If you really want "closure," you give every swinging dick a gander at the irrefutable evidence so you can always say "See, *******s? See what is up?" Think post war Germany and every citizen getting their faces rubbed in it. You do **** like what was done at ground zero and with OBL, and that leaves the door open for people to doubt. Doubt leads to arguments, arguments leads to divisiveness, divisiveness leads to control, and

LOOK! there's a Royal Wedding in England! How fun!

That doubt will always prevent unity. Hell, look at the assassination of Lincoln. Parts of that investigation are still sealed. You telling me there are national secrets that old that threaten our modern way of life?

[whabang]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Ok, seriously they did that. It was an unconfirmed report earlier.

I'm frankly amazed. Anybody else wondering why the "most wanted man in the world" was suddenly killed (rather than captured for trial), and his remains dumped at sea before anybody independent could verify the claim?

You would think that under the circumstances, in this supposedly pivotal point in The War Against Terror they'd at least allow journalists to see the body and perhaps take a photograph or two before disposing of it. Remember when Saddam was caught? There was full (embedded) media coverage of that moment.

Yet, here's Osama, the #1 bad guy they've been hunting for a decade and it's all done and dusted out of sight of anybody. It doesn't exactly help discredit the suggestion that he's actually been dead for some time and they've simply exhumed him from somewhere and confirmed the DNA, does it?

I can understand why they'd want him dead. Allowing him to defend himself in a court could be potentially dangerous. The guy wasn't dumb, and I'd assume he knew a secret or two.

Burial at see, is also understandable. That way there is no burial site. Nowhere to go to pay respect, and nowhere to go for inspiration.

I really, really, doubt anyone would miss the PR stunt of showing him off for a few days first, though.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Careful with that generalisation. What he (saw) was actually referring to was avoiding extremes in life. As for the "middle way" always being the correct one, I can think of plenty of contrary examples

Ah, such is the richness of Arabic that the same phrase can be written many ways in English.