amiga.org
     
iconAll times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:35 PM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.

Amiga.org Amiga computer related discussion Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion This forum is dedicated to the discussion and resolution of issues related to Classic and Next Generation Amiga hardware. Got a problem with a piece of hardware? Click to speak.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2011, 08:08 PM   #1
nyteschayde
Premium Member
Points: 11,070, Level: 69 Points: 11,070, Level: 69 Points: 11,070, Level: 69
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
nyteschayde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Jose, Ca USA
Posts: 428
Send a message via ICQ to nyteschayde Send a message via AIM to nyteschayde Send a message via MSN to nyteschayde Send a message via Yahoo to nyteschayde
Default A1200 PAL vs NTSC

I recently purchased a nice A1200 complete in the case and a NTSC unit (which I wanted). The problem is that the mobo revision doesn't support Subway USB adapter I bought (the clock port is on the wrong side). I have another A1200 motherboard that is PAL and has the right clock port pins, but my question is, how can I make the PAL motherboard a NTSC one? Are there chips I can swap out? Traces I can cut or build?

Anybody have an idea?
nyteschayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:10 PM   #2
runequester
It's Amiga time!
Points: 25,611, Level: 96 Points: 25,611, Level: 96 Points: 25,611, Level: 96
Activity: 96% Activity: 96% Activity: 96%
 
runequester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 3,695
Blog Entries: 7
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Will booting in NTSC mode not work for you ?

I guess it does get a bit tedious.

I believe its a fairly simple conversion but Im sure someone will come across shortly to help.
__________________
Amiga AND Linux fan. Zealots are people that lack faith

I blog..a lot.
http://doctorwhoretrospec.blogspot.com/
http://redleftperspective.blogspot.com/
http://theamigablog.blogspot.com/
runequester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:28 PM   #3
nyteschayde
Premium Member
Points: 11,070, Level: 69 Points: 11,070, Level: 69 Points: 11,070, Level: 69
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
nyteschayde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Jose, Ca USA
Posts: 428
Send a message via ICQ to nyteschayde Send a message via AIM to nyteschayde Send a message via MSN to nyteschayde Send a message via Yahoo to nyteschayde
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Yeah I can always go back to doing that but I was hoping that I'd somehow be able to swap something and make it happen more easily. :-\ We'll see if anybody else has any ideas.
nyteschayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 09:28 PM   #4
brenry
Beginner
Points: 1,480, Level: 21 Points: 1,480, Level: 21 Points: 1,480, Level: 21
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: KS
Posts: 42
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by runequester View Post
Will booting in NTSC mode not work for you ?
runequester: My PAL a1200 arrived today in the mail. Is there a bootfile I can edit to select NTSC by default like an autoexec.bat without going into bootmenu each time before going to CLI?

I really don't like the way these games sound. I grew up with fast tempo tracks like Outrun and Last Ninja, and it just does not sound good to my ear in 50 fps PAL, the game play is smoother in 60 fps ntsc mode, and I hate dicking around with my screen adjustment controls when pal mode is active all the time.
brenry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 10:18 PM   #5
runequester
It's Amiga time!
Points: 25,611, Level: 96 Points: 25,611, Level: 96 Points: 25,611, Level: 96
Activity: 96% Activity: 96% Activity: 96%
 
runequester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 3,695
Blog Entries: 7
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

hmm, I'll be honest, I virtually never use mine in NTSC mode. A quick google search doesn't suggest anything.

THings that tweak how the machine boots goes in the startup-sequence stuff, but I think by the time you are that far in the boot process, its probably too late.

Im not a monster guru though.
__________________
Amiga AND Linux fan. Zealots are people that lack faith

I blog..a lot.
http://doctorwhoretrospec.blogspot.com/
http://redleftperspective.blogspot.com/
http://theamigablog.blogspot.com/
runequester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 11:03 PM   #6
Darrin
Lifetime Member
Points: 20,171, Level: 89 Points: 20,171, Level: 89 Points: 20,171, Level: 89
Activity: 46% Activity: 46% Activity: 46%
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Posts: 4,342
Send a message via AIM to Darrin Send a message via Yahoo to Darrin
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyteschayde View Post
I recently purchased a nice A1200 complete in the case and a NTSC unit (which I wanted). The problem is that the mobo revision doesn't support Subway USB adapter I bought (the clock port is on the wrong side). I have another A1200 motherboard that is PAL and has the right clock port pins, but my question is, how can I make the PAL motherboard a NTSC one? Are there chips I can swap out? Traces I can cut or build?

Anybody have an idea?
Where are you located? I have a NTSC A1200 in an Elbox Tower case, I'd swap my NTSC board for the PAL one with the correct pins.

I would need to check the clockport pins on my NTSC board first though.
__________________
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
Darrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 11:05 PM   #7
Darrin
Lifetime Member
Points: 20,171, Level: 89 Points: 20,171, Level: 89 Points: 20,171, Level: 89
Activity: 46% Activity: 46% Activity: 46%
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Posts: 4,342
Send a message via AIM to Darrin Send a message via Yahoo to Darrin
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyteschayde View Post
Yeah I can always go back to doing that but I was hoping that I'd somehow be able to swap something and make it happen more easily. :-\ We'll see if anybody else has any ideas.
Is there a particular reason why you want a NTSC model? Is it that you want to connect it to a regular TV? If you can live with PAL and have a monitor with a VGA connector then look for one of those cheap RGB-VGA boxes that people use, rather than an expensive scan doubler.
__________________
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
Darrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 01:58 AM   #8
psxphill
Defender of the Faith
Points: 6,647, Level: 53 Points: 6,647, Level: 53 Points: 6,647, Level: 53
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,546
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyteschayde View Post
I have another A1200 motherboard that is PAL and has the right clock port pins, but my question is, how can I make the PAL motherboard a NTSC one? Are there chips I can swap out? Traces I can cut or build?
Alice pin 41 controls whether it's ntsc/pal. A google search for "amiga alice pin 41" should give you an idea.

Obviously this just affects the refresh rate, the composite video output will be PAL60. So everything will look black and white in NTSC land.

The RGB video will be fine though.
psxphill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:47 AM   #9
broken
Technoid
Points: 7,136, Level: 55 Points: 7,136, Level: 55 Points: 7,136, Level: 55
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
broken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mason, OH USA
Posts: 224
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by psxphill View Post
Alice pin 41 controls whether it's ntsc/pal. A google search for "amiga alice pin 41" should give you an idea.

Obviously this just affects the refresh rate, the composite video output will be PAL60. So everything will look black and white in NTSC land.

The RGB video will be fine though.
Yup.

Ground Pin 41 of the Alice chip and the A1200 will boot it up in NTSC mode. If you enter the early startup menu you will see that the machine has defaulted to NTSC. Likewise with a NTSC machine if you lift Pin 41 from its solder point, thereby un-grounding it, the machine will boot to PAL mode. You could even install a toggle switch to control if the machine boots into PAL or NTSC mode. Just don't flip it while the machine is powered on otherwise Alice would probably be toast.



If you are using an RGB monitor everything will be perfectly fine. However the composite video and RF jacks will display incorrectly or black and white (results depends on the TV as some are more tolerant - especially older CRTs). Kipper2K recently posted directions for a full conversion which would make the composite and RF display correctly, but if you are using RGB I wouldn't bother. Full conversion involves a lot of component soldering and desoldering and expense.

Considering the composite and RF video out on them is crap anyways, this isn't much a lost. You could always purchase one of the NTSC/PAL Composite/S-video adapters from Amigamaniac that plugs into the RGB port. I had one and the s-video out is FANTASTIC. Very close to RGB quality. Kipper2k is also working on one that does component video as well.


HOWEVER - Might I ask WHY you want the machine in NTSC mode? Unless you plan on doing genlock video work or hooking it up to a regular TV or similiar, I personally see no need for NTSC. Almost all the good software and certainly nearly all games are in PAL. I like many have been using PAL Amiga's here in the states for years and have been a lot happier with it. More compatible and software runs and plays the way it should. No more speed up music or missing parts of the screen like you normally get with NTSC machines trying to run PAL software. All those excellent Demo's from Europe would play perfectly unlike on NTSC machines. So unless you have a mountain of NTSC software or some other burning desire I wouldn't worry about it.


Also, in case you aren't aware, if you are using an RGB monitor like the 1084, it will display just fine with the PAL A1200. The RGB inputs on them will display both NTSC and PAL fine. Likewise with many (most?) other RGB monitors. I use a JVC broadcast quality monitor via RGB and works fine with both 50 and 60Hz inputs.



Bottom line - If using an RGB monitor, ground Pin 41 of the Alice chip to force the machine into NTSC mode if you really need it. Otherwise hold down both mouse buttons at bootup and switch to NTSC via the early startup screen.
broken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 12:54 PM   #10
brenry
Beginner
Points: 1,480, Level: 21 Points: 1,480, Level: 21 Points: 1,480, Level: 21
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: KS
Posts: 42
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken View Post
Yup.

HOWEVER - Might I ask WHY you want the machine in NTSC mode? Unless you plan on doing genlock video work or hooking it up to a regular TV or similiar, I personally see no need for NTSC. Almost all the good software and certainly nearly all games are in PAL.
THANKS for the pin info !

Your games might be pal, but the majority of Killergorilla's collection is the ntsc version. If your games are displaying a 2 inch black strip along the left border or the bottom of your games dont stretch to the bottom, your games are NTSC. Its why so many youtube videos look ugly like this. Plenty of old posts on the subject.

You are wrong.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=26403
brenry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 06:37 PM   #11
broken
Technoid
Points: 7,136, Level: 55 Points: 7,136, Level: 55 Points: 7,136, Level: 55
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
broken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mason, OH USA
Posts: 224
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenry View Post
Your games might be pal, but the majority of Killergorilla's collection is the ntsc version.
You don't honestly believe this do you?



I sincerely doubt that a UK user would base his WHDLoad collection off NTSC versions of games. Especially considering most all the installs are from Euro folks based off Tosec dumps. Which originated in Euro land anyways. I know there are a couple NTSC specific releases in it.


Now, some NTSC games that were took over to PAL territories were never rewritten by some lazy devs and probably have some issues. But none the less those were PAL releases. Plus most of the big games released for the Amiga were out of the UK anyways.


You are insane if you think his collection is based off NTSC games.


Never mind the fact all the demo scene productions are most certainly PAL only. Some might kinda work on NTSC, but still PAL is the best way to enjoy them.
broken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 09:00 PM   #12
magnetic
Defender of the Faith
Points: 16,052, Level: 81 Points: 16,052, Level: 81 Points: 16,052, Level: 81
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
magnetic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,987
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

@OP

How do you know if you have the wrong clockport or not? I have an escom a1200 should it be ok? Or were the non cbm 1200s the problem? I'm wanting a subway.
__________________
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS /Amiga OS4.1 U4/Ubuntu GNU-Linux /MacOS X

Amiga Technologies A1200 HD | Blizzard 1260@66mhz | 128mb | OS 3.9 | Indivision MK2

Amiga 600 | 3.1 Rom | 4mb SRAM 2mb Chip | ClassicWB 68k
magnetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 12:32 AM   #13
Zac67
Kindred of Babble-on
Points: 12,866, Level: 74 Points: 12,866, Level: 74 Points: 12,866, Level: 74
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
 
Zac67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Erlangen, Germany
Posts: 2,890
Blog Entries: 4
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken View Post
Just don't flip it while the machine is powered on otherwise Alice would probably be toast.
I seriously doubt that.
Though I can't truly vouch for Alice (never owned an AGA machine) Agnus doesn't care at all if the switch is flipped 'hot' (used to do that on a 500 and a 3000). Since Alice is more-or-less just a newer rev of Agnus it shouldn't be more picky.
Zac67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 06:23 AM   #14
broken
Technoid
Points: 7,136, Level: 55 Points: 7,136, Level: 55 Points: 7,136, Level: 55
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
broken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mason, OH USA
Posts: 224
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac67 View Post
I seriously doubt that.
Though I can't truly vouch for Alice (never owned an AGA machine) Agnus doesn't care at all if the switch is flipped 'hot' (used to do that on a 500 and a 3000). Since Alice is more-or-less just a newer rev of Agnus it shouldn't be more picky.
Well, I was thinking it was more of a safety caution. Kinda like always wear safety glasses while working in wood shop.

Though I kinda imagined the machine would lock up and require powering off and back on if you flipped it while powered on.
broken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2011, 02:00 AM   #15
nyteschayde
Premium Member
Points: 11,070, Level: 69 Points: 11,070, Level: 69 Points: 11,070, Level: 69
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
nyteschayde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Jose, Ca USA
Posts: 428
Send a message via ICQ to nyteschayde Send a message via AIM to nyteschayde Send a message via MSN to nyteschayde Send a message via Yahoo to nyteschayde
Default Re: A1200 PAL vs NTSC

I am in San Jose, CA USA. Actually I'd like to get another Indivision when one crops up but given I live in the States all my games and software are NTSC versions and it's always been a pain for me. Not to mention I hate the flicker of a 50Hz resolution. I can swap at boot but doing that all the time is also a pain.
nyteschayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
pal , a1200 , ntsc

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump