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Old 01-28-2011, 04:14 AM   #41
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma View Post
So only partial GFX support then. No 3D. And you can't use it together with SATA HDD's/CD-ROM's/DVD's anyway, so...
You are wrong here

There are 3 slots on the board, not two:

- 16x PCIE slot to be used with the GFX card
- PCI slot for SATA / SATA2 or Catweasel or Audio, etc
- 1x PCIE slot which is mutually exclusive with the onboard SATA2

Quote:
How about the Gigabit Ethernet, is that supported?
Yes

Quote:
"Notes: the SATA2 port and the PCI-e 1x slot are mutually exclusive, only one of them can be used at a time", I mean, come on!
Again, see above...
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:24 AM   #42
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by MaximvsPayne View Post
ive forgot one question. will i get an amigaos4.1 box with the sam board or will it only be an burned or whatever boxless media? i like big boxes on the shelves, this one would take place near my old os3.5 box and the little os3.9 jewelcase. BIG BOXES BIG BOXES BIG BOXES - this way anyone who will visit my home can see, what a big ultragigaturboNERD I AM. i like it this way.

cheers acube
You'll receive a box with printed manuals and install CD, like the one on this page:

http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.p...software&pid=1
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:40 AM   #43
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x View Post
You are wrong here

There are 3 slots on the board, not two
OK then, thanks for correcting me, and sorry for any confusion that part of my post may have caused.

Besides that, nothing else changes though.
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma View Post
OK then, thanks for correcting me, and sorry for any confusion that part of my post may have caused.

Besides that, nothing else changes though.
No it never will with you!
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:50 AM   #45
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma View Post
Well, at least they put a Lattice XP2 FPGA on the thing. In previous versions of their Sam's, the FPGA's has proven to be such useful for... well, uhm... yeah... Well, maybe if they rebrand the chip "XENA Light" and the optional 80 I/O pins expansion connector "XORRO Light" the magic will happen? Because XENA and XORRO is what makes boards true Amigas, everyone knows that!
Just a few words to clarify the FPGA usage on the Sam boards: indeed the FPGA _is_ currently used on both 440 and 460 (more on the new 460 than on the 440)
Instead using a CPLD as a "glue chip" to control several signals on the board, we decided to use a more versatile FPGA.
Teorically speaking, if you remove the FPGA chip from the board, it won't work at all.

Plus, the presence of a FPGA open up more opportunities to personalize the board for the industrial market, since there is still free space to be used on the XP and XP2.

We know the FPGA is not currently used on the Amiga side, but this isn't the primary reason for the presence of the FPGA on our boards.
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Last edited by m3x; 01-28-2011 at 04:51 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:09 AM   #46
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x View Post
Plus, the presence of a FPGA open up more opportunities to personalize the board for the industrial market, since there is still free space to be used on the XP and XP2.
While you are just here: can you provide a rough nimber about industrial use? No details needed, but are industrial customers rather 10% of the market (in the manner of sold items) or 90%, 0% or 50%. Your word would be evidence enough for me.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:09 AM   #47
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x View Post
Just a few words to clarify the FPGA usage on the Sam boards: indeed the FPGA _is_ currently used on both 440 and 460 (more on the new 460 than on the 440)
Instead using a CPLD as a "glue chip" to control several signals on the board, we decided to use a more versatile FPGA.
Teorically speaking, if you remove the FPGA chip from the board, it won't work at all.

Plus, the presence of a FPGA open up more opportunities to personalize the board for the industrial market, since there is still free space to be used on the XP and XP2.

We know the FPGA is not currently used on the Amiga side, but this isn't the primary reason for the presence of the FPGA on our boards.
So basically you have no intentions to release any documentation on how to use the FPGA? Where's this Amiga custom HW emulation for SAM 440?

It's rather interesting considering the effort put to marketing the FPGA as the wonder device here: http://www.acube-systems.biz/common/Bitplane15.pdf

Wouldn't it be time to admit that no amiga programmers will ever have access to the FPGA?

Last edited by Piru; 01-28-2011 at 05:18 AM..
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:24 AM   #48
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by Piru View Post
So basically you have no intentions to release any documentation on how to use the FPGA? Where's this Amiga custom HW emulation for SAM 440?

It's rather interesting considering the effort put to marketing FPGA a the wonder device here: http://www.acube-systems.biz/common/Bitplane15.pdf
Where I said we don't release any documentation about the FPGA ?
What an interested developer needs to use the XP/XP2 FPGA is already on LatticeSemi web site (tools, datasheet, application notes, IP etc..)
A LatticeSemi JTAG cable is needed to reprogram the FPGA with a new bitstream.
We provide some additional info how the FPGA is connected to the onboard buses under written request.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:32 AM   #49
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piru View Post
Okay so with tax the price with be around 900 €, excluding all other required components. That is quite expensive for a product with partial OS support.
i'm not a morphos fan and i shall be happy the day all macs disintegrate.
But piru is totally right (now).
blessed the day that a new hw house will sell amiga one mboards to half the price and double the power...
and i continue to say: 2000 eur for an x1000 (in sheer power and "optionals") is less than 900 eur for a s460

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Old 01-28-2011, 05:45 AM   #50
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

@M3x

thanks for the infos
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:55 AM   #51
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by rebraist View Post
blessed the day that a new hw house will sell amiga one mboards to half the price and double the power...
No, a quarter of the price and four times the power, complete with a first-class relic of Jay Miner affixed to the board!
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:03 AM   #52
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x View Post
Where I said we don't release any documentation about the FPGA ?
What an interested developer needs to use the XP/XP2 FPGA is already on LatticeSemi web site (tools, datasheet, application notes, IP etc..)
A LatticeSemi JTAG cable is needed to reprogram the FPGA with a new bitstream.
Does this mean that FPGA cannot be reprogrammed with the CPU? Anyone wanting to install new programming such as amiga chipset emulation needs to buy such JTAG cable? How much is it? Ah to answer myself: HW-USBN-2A, $149 USD, 139 € in some european shop.

Quote:
We provide some additional info how the FPGA is connected to the onboard buses under written request.
Hmm wait. You're saying that all the current programming on the FPGA can be overwritten or that the current program can be downloaded from LatticeSemi website? I thought the board would be bricked if the original programming was overwritten.

How much of the original FPGA space is available for user programs?

Last edited by Piru; 01-28-2011 at 06:34 AM..
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:36 AM   #53
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piru View Post
Does this mean that FPGA cannot be reprogrammed with the CPU? Anyone wanting to install new programming such as amiga chipset emulation needs to buy such JTAG cable? How much is it? Ah to answer myself: HW-USBN-2A, $149 USD, 139 € in some european shop.
The FPGA can be reprogrammed in several ways, and in some way directly from the CPU too.

Taking as an example the custom hw emulation, an additional little board connected to the 80 pin expansion slot may reprogramm the FPGA (the jtag pins are replicated there)
This little board may provide additional joystick ports, aga/audio output etc..

Another way to reprogram the FPGA with the CPU is using 4 GPIO pins connected to the FPGA JTAG connector.

I'm currently pondering to modify U-Boot to allow developers to use such technic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piru View Post
Hmm wait. You're saying that all the current programming on the FPGA can be overwritten or that the current program can be downloaded from LatticeSemi website? I thought the board would be bricked if the original programming was overwritten.
No, the additional info how the FPGA is connected to the onboard buses includes how to not "brick" the board.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:44 AM   #54
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x View Post
The FPGA can be reprogrammed in several ways, and in some way directly from the CPU too.

...

Another way to reprogram the FPGA with the CPU is using 4 GPIO pins connected to the FPGA JTAG connector.

I'm currently pondering to modify U-Boot to allow developers to use such technic.
Ok that sounds sensible.

Quote:
No, the additional info how the FPGA is connected to the onboard buses includes how to not "brick" the board.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Taking as an example the custom hw emulation, an additional little board connected to the 80 pin expansion slot may reprogramm the FPGA (the jtag pins are replicated there)
This little board may provide additional joystick ports, aga/audio output etc..
Hmm. So would solution like this be isolated from the rest of the system or would it be possible to use keyboard, mouse etc connected to SAM 4x0 for input? Would it be possible to read/write data from host HDD(s)? Would it be possible to have the graphics output in a window? Assuming integration at this level is possible then it could be worth the effort.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:53 AM   #55
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x
The FPGA can be reprogrammed in several ways, and in some way directly from the CPU too.

...

Another way to reprogram the FPGA with the CPU is using 4 GPIO pins connected to the FPGA JTAG connector.

I'm currently pondering to modify U-Boot to allow developers to use such technic.

Ok that sounds sensible.

Quote:No, the additional info how the FPGA is connected to the onboard buses includes how to not "brick" the board.

Fair enough.
Sounds very promising / intriguing !
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:00 AM   #56
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by m3x View Post
Taking as an example the custom hw emulation, an additional little board connected to the 80 pin expansion slot may reprogramm the FPGA (the jtag pins are replicated there)
This little board may provide additional joystick ports, aga/audio output etc..
Did you just say "AGA"? Sounds very intriguing. Even integrated ECS hardware support would be way cool.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:03 AM   #57
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3x View Post
The FPGA can be reprogrammed in several ways, and in some way directly from the CPU too.

Taking as an example the custom hw emulation, an additional little board connected to the 80 pin expansion slot may reprogramm the FPGA (the jtag pins are replicated there)
This little board may provide additional joystick ports, aga/audio output etc..

Another way to reprogram the FPGA with the CPU is using 4 GPIO pins connected to the FPGA JTAG connector.

I'm currently pondering to modify U-Boot to allow developers to use such technic.
No, the additional info how the FPGA is connected to the onboard buses includes how to not "brick" the board.
thanks for the info m3x! looking forward to playing with the FPGA..sounds cool
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:07 AM   #58
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by mbrantley View Post
Did you just say "AGA"? Sounds very intriguing. Even integrated ECS hardware support would be way cool.

What would be the point, dont say for running classic games from AOS4, because that as far as I can work out, and I could be wrong, would not be feasible/worth the effort
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:07 AM   #59
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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Originally Posted by Piru View Post
Hmm. So would solution like this be isolated from the rest of the system or would it be possible to use keyboard, mouse etc connected to SAM 4x0 for input? Would it be possible to read/write data from host HDD(s)? Would it be possible to have the graphics output in a window? Assuming integration at this level is possible then it could be worth the effort.
On both 440 and 460 boards the FPGA is connected to a PPC local bus (EBC, 16 bit wide) and have 4 MB addressing space available.

Currently the FPGA is mapped at address 0xFF000000 on the 440 and 0x4 FF000000 on the 460 (the 460 has 36 bit physical addressing space)
The base address may be modified by changing one register on the 440/460 cpu.

The FPGA may act as master on the EBC bus and transfer data to/from any location in main ram (maybe using DMA too, need to check if it's possible on the PLB3 bus)

Basically it's possible to reach a high level of integration, with a deep knowledge of the 440 architecture.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:21 AM   #60
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Default Re: Sam460ex available with AmigaOS 4.1

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What would be the point, dont say for running classic games from AOS4, because that as far as I can work out, and I could be wrong, would not be feasible/worth the effort
I already run classic AGA games using glUAE by saimo or even RunInUAE by ChrisH so I'm sure the FPGA could be used for alot more interesting things
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