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Old 06-14-2011, 10:44 AM   #751
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
I see 4 SDRAM on the replay expansion board v1.0

4 SDRAM = How many Mb ??
4 SDRAMs = 128 MB
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Old 06-14-2011, 10:54 AM   #752
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Hum... It's not enough... With faster 060 (about 100 Mhz), software will be more complicated and will need more ram !

Add 384 Mb, Yaqube ! SDRAM in China is cheap these days...

Users don't want slowdown with HD partition swap...


The Natami team should add 512 Mo of fastram too on the Natami...
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:09 AM   #753
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
Hum... It's not enough... With faster 060 (about 100 Mhz), software will be more complicated and will need more ram !

Add 384 Mb, Yaqube ! SDRAM in China is cheap these days...

Users don't want slowdown with HD partition swap...


The Natami team should add 512 Mo of fastram too on the Natami...
Who on Earth would want more than 640KB?

I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:15 AM   #754
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
Who on Earth would want more than 640KB?

I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later.
wow you must be bill gates, well why not use your funds and port amiga os to x86
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:25 AM   #755
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

>I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later

For now, yes !

But when you develop a product, you MUST think about the future...

Faster CPU = bigger software = more fastram needed !


1 module 32 Mb SDRAM 5 ns is less than 4 USD today : users will be ok to add some money to get more fastram, I'm sure. Open a poll to check...
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:30 PM   #756
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

While you can never have enough memory, we also need to keep in mind that machine specs are always a tradeoff. Getting a working product out now is better than having the promise of a product in the future.

This seems to be one of the problems facing Natami. Changing specs keeps it from ever making to to production. I will happily take 128M memory on the FPGAArcade, and if that turns out to be too little in a few years, I will happily pay to buy a new FPGAArcade with more memory at that time.

This way I can play today, AND play tomorrow. As opposed to hoping that some day I will get to play with the perfect board.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:55 PM   #757
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by Belial6 View Post
While you can never have enough memory, we also need to keep in mind that machine specs are always a tradeoff. Getting a working product out now is better than having the promise of a product in the future.

This seems to be one of the problems facing Natami. Changing specs keeps it from ever making to to production. I will happily take 128M memory on the FPGAArcade, and if that turns out to be too little in a few years, I will happily pay to buy a new FPGAArcade with more memory at that time.

This way I can play today, AND play tomorrow. As opposed to hoping that some day I will get to play with the perfect board.
agreed. I'm happy to upgrade every so often, just like I do with my PCs. feature creep is a killer.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:19 PM   #758
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

The main problem is space actually on the expansion board, the processor is huge!
The second problem is tracking. It may be possible to stick rams on both sides which would double the capacity. I'm just starting to look at this seriously.
/MikeJ
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:19 PM   #759
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

It's feature creep that always reminds me of the BoXeR and why I'm kind of doubtful as to the eventual release of Natami.

But yeah, the fpga arcade does look to be a very nice solution
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:30 PM   #760
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by Belial6 View Post
While you can never have enough memory, we also need to keep in mind that machine specs are always a tradeoff. Getting a working product out now is better than having the promise of a product in the future.

This seems to be one of the problems facing Natami. Changing specs keeps it from ever making to to production. I will happily take 128M memory on the FPGAArcade, and if that turns out to be too little in a few years, I will happily pay to buy a new FPGAArcade with more memory at that time.

This way I can play today, AND play tomorrow. As opposed to hoping that some day I will get to play with the perfect board.
Babbage Syndrome.... keep thinking "wouldn't it be cool if.....", then never actually finishing the project before running out of funds.

My "real" Amiga never had more than 13MB, and I was never pressed for space. Well, except in chipram, which won't be a problem for either the Natami or Replay.
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:37 PM   #761
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

@mikej

Please don't let feature creep derail your project. You also don't want a thousand different models when it comes to warranty/add-ons/tech support.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:09 PM   #762
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
Who on Earth would want more than 640KB?

I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later.
But what will you do when applications are produced that require more? You're screwed.

Yes, slots are good. I like SODIMM slots. But that can be another pile of stuff to deal with, adding ability to scan modules to know what they are, what if modules report wrong spec (as I understand a lot of them did causing memory issues with A1 boards). A fixed design helps focus and debug elsewhere, perhaps a later respin will trade hardwired RAM for a mem slot.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:12 PM   #763
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Originally Posted by mikej View Post
The main problem is space actually on the expansion board, the processor is huge!
The second problem is tracking. It may be possible to stick rams on both sides which would double the capacity. I'm just starting to look at this seriously.
/MikeJ
Some memories have dual package options that mirror each other. Then the top side chip can connect to the bottom side chip with nothing but vias. Of course that may be in the way of your decoupling caps, but they must have a solution for that. I think it's popular with graphics cards.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:28 PM   #764
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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Babbage Syndrome...
Absolutely perfect description, mind it I use it?
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:28 PM   #765
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

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But what will you do when applications are produced that require more? You're screwed.
Nope. Not screwed. When applications are produced that require more, we buy an FPGAArcade 2. I can't imagine that bloat is going to be so fast that we will be running out of 128M in the next year or two.

No matter how much power Mike puts on the board, it will always have the potential to need more. By allowing feature creep to prevent a proper roll out, the only way that adding more memory would prevent someone from running out is by having the board never completed in the first place.
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