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[nicholas]

-IMAGE REMOVED-

Conservative commentator, former Marine Colonel Bob Pappas has been saying for years that bin Laden died at Tora Bora and that Senator Kerry’s claim that bin Laden escaped with Bush help was a lie. Now we know that Pappas was correct. The embarrassment of having Secretary of State Clinton talk about bin Laden in Pakistan was horrific. He has been dead since December 13, 2001 and now, finally, everyone, Obama, McChrystal, Cheney, everyone who isn’t nuts is finally saying what they have known for years.

However, since we lost a couple of hundred of our top special operations forces hunting for bin Laden after we knew he was dead, is someone going to answer for this with some jail time? Since we spent 200 million dollars on “special ops” looking for someone we knew was dead, who is going to jail for that? Since Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney continually talked about a man they knew was dead, now known to be for reasons of POLITICAL nature, who is going to jail for that? Why were tapes brought out, now known to be forged, as legitimate intelligence to sway the disputed 2004 election in the US? This is a criminal act if there ever was one.

In 66 pages, General Stanley McChrystal never mentions Osama bin Laden. Everything is “Mullah Omar”now. In his talk at West Point, President Obama never mentioned Osama bin Laden. Col. Pappas makes it clear, Vice President Cheney let it “out of the bag” long ago. Bin Laden was killed by American troops many many years ago.

America knew Osama bin Laden died December 13, 2001. After that, his use was hardly one to unite America but rather one to divide, scam and play games. With bin Laden gone, we could have started legitimate nation building in Afghanistan instead of the eternal insurgency that we invented ourselves.
Without our ill informed policies, we could have had a brought diplomatic solution in 2002 in Afghanistan, the one we are ignoring now, and spent money rebuilding the country, 5 cents on the dollar compared to what we are spending fighting a war against an enemy we ourselves recruited thru ignorance.

The bin Laden scam is one of the most shameful acts ever perpetrated against the American people. We don’t even know if he really was an enemy, certainly he was never the person that Bush and Cheney said. In fact, the Bush and bin Laden families were always close friends and had been for many years.

Gordon Duff is a Marine Vietnam veteran, and Senior Editor at Veterans Today. His career has included extensive experience in international banking along with such diverse areas as consulting on counter insurgency, defense technologies or acting as diplomatic officer of UN humanitarian groups. Gordon Duff's articles are published around the world and translated into a number of languages. He is regularly on TV and radio, a popular and sometimes controversial guest.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/12...den-long-dead/

[Franko]

I was just about to have my breakfast (even though it is lunchtime, slept in today) but that pic's kinda put me off a bit, think I'll just have a strong coffee now & comment later...

[KThunder]

I figured I would post some links and quotes from real, reliable, and reputable websites and real journalists. Although it probably doesn't matter. If you dislike the US, President Obama, or especially President Bush, you will accept Gordon Duff's ludicrous, unsubstantiated claims and uncited "quotes". Iv'e found that some people are ready willing and able to accept any "news" story if it makes the US, it's leaders, or people, look bad.

Here is one from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8444069.stm

Mike Scheuer, the former CIA officer who set up and ran the agency's Bin Laden unit, thinks Bin Laden is still alive.
"Whenever he speaks on audio tape, he always says something in there that's fairly current. Also, the US National Security Agency (NSA) and UK Government Communication Headquarters (GCHQ) are very good at voice prints,"

Another former CIA agent, Art Keller, is more damning:
"I think those conspiracy theories that he is dead are pretty much laughable," he says.
"It's easier to explain things away with a conspiracy than to face up to the difficult reality. In this case, the difficult reality is that we're trying to operate in possibly the worst area in the world and track someone who's very crafty and elusive and putting considerable effort to stay off our radar."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...den-alive.html
Wikileaks Afghanistan: Osama bin Laden alive
Osama bin Laden is alive and playing a key role in directing the war in Afghanistan, leaked US military files suggest.

Still on the top ten, pretty good for a "dead" guy.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082700687.html



Vetrans today is not a reliable reputable source of information in any stretch of the imagination.

Here is a comment from the american legion:
In part I of my discussion of the website Veterans Today, I talked about the 4 reasons I don’t reply to emails about articles folks have seen there. As I stated in that piece, the 4 reasons are:
1) 9-11 and other Conspiracy Theories;
2) Anti-semitism: Jews, Jews, everywhere the Jews;
3) Inaccuracies and libel against the Troops; and
4) Inaccuracies and libel against Veterans Service Organizations.
http://burnpit.legion.org/2010/04/ve...organizations/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...acy-supremacy/
Since 9/11, the Internet drives fact and fantasy in equal measure
...Gordon Duff, a Vietnam veteran, senior editor of Veterans Today and frequent "self-hating American" guest on radio and TV stations the world over, there is no doubt he is to the conspiracy theory born

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-laden/?page=2
"Mr. Duff does commentary on his conspiracy theories for radio and TV news programs; "
"On the worldwide Web, there are no red lines between information, misinformation and disinformation"

Gordon Duff is a racist, antisemite, antiamerican, conspiracy WACKO.
Osama bin Ladin very well might be dead. We don't have any reliable info on his current wherabouts, but many legitamate journalists, military leaders, and others believe he is still alive. We don't have proof he is currently alive or dead.
Like I said he might be dead, but don't cite Gordon Duff, why on earth would you consider him more reliable, or knowledgeable than people from the BBC, the Washington times, the CIA, the Pakistani gov. (never ever said they had proof of his death although they allow us to use their soil to search even though they don't really like it.) the US gov including President Obama, or any number of real sources.

[KThunder]

here is another one from Tehran Times (from Iran) basically quoting the BBC piece:
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=211916
"The veracity of all of the videos is questioned by David Ray Griffin, a former theology professor and member of the 9/11 Truth Movement, which also questions mainstream accounts of the attack on the World Trade Centre."

Seriously, a former theology professor is weighing in on the issue and taken seriously? I have a degree in theology and Bible from Davis college in NY and I can tell you from personal experience that nothing in my training or my professors included video or voice analysis, or forensics. This guy is not an expert and should not be put on par with the CIA or real journalists. I'd put him right there with Gordon Duff though.


BTW I also wanted to comment on your thread title: "Years of deceit: US openly accepts bin laden long dead"

"Openly Accepts", thats hilarious, one conspiracy theorist nutcase's website is speaking for the US government huh?

[Franko]

Conspiracy Theorists, Governments, CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6, Al Qaeda, The Taliban and the Milkman...

Dunno why folk believe anything any of them have to say or trust them, simple fact is this worlds in a right mess and shall be for decades to come, as none of the above will ever back down, so ignore them all and enjoy life for what it is...

Wether O'Sammy BinMadMans alive or dead, it doesn't matter, life's too short to worry about the fanatics on either side of this whole crazy situation...

[KThunder]

@Franko
True...
There are reasons not to like or trust, America, Americans or our national leaders; But there are reasons to like and/or trust them too. Disrespectful nonsense just irritates enormously. I don't agree with all of President Obamas political ideals but I respect him, and I trust that he will perform his job to the best of his ability.

[the_leander]

Originally Posted by KThunder

Seriously, a former theology professor is weighing in on the issue and taken seriously? I have a degree in theology and Bible from Davis college in NY and I can tell you from personal experience that nothing in my training or my professors included video or voice analysis, or forensics. This guy is not an expert and should not be put on par with the CIA or real journalists. I'd put him right there with Gordon Duff though.

David Ray Griffin is one of the major movers in conspiracy theory circles. He makes (or at least made) a tidy living selling DVDs to loonspuds convincing them that teh jooz did 9/11... (oh yes, I went there)

He's like the poor man's Alex Jones.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by KThunder

Like I said he might be dead, but don't cite Gordon Duff, why on earth would you consider him more reliable, or knowledgeable than people from the BBC, the Washington times, the CIA, the Pakistani gov.

I don't and haven't claimed so, I posted this article verbatim to stimulate a debate. I had no idea who Gordon Duff was prior to reading this article earlier today.

[BTW I also wanted to comment on your thread title: "Years of deceit: US openly accepts bin laden long dead"

"Openly Accepts", thats hilarious, one conspiracy theorist nutcase's website is speaking for the US government huh?

It's Gordon Duff's title, not mine.


As for whether Bin Laden (May the curse of the one God, all of his Prophets, their Successors and angels be upon him for eternity) is alive or dead, until his filthy carcass is shown to the world along with dental records and DNA profile we will never know for sure.

Lovely CGI pic though don't you think?

[KThunder]

Originally Posted by nicholas

I don't and haven't claimed so, I posted this article verbatim to stimulate a debate. I had no idea who Gordon Duff was prior to reading this article earlier today.



It's Gordon Duff's title, not mine.


As for whether Bin Laden (May the curse of the one God, all of his Prophets, their Successors and angels be upon him for eternity) is alive or dead, until his filthy carcass is shown to the world along with dental records and DNA profile we will never know for sure.

Lovely CGI pic though don't you think?

Yeah Gordon Duff is nuts.
As for the, ah, curse? Wow, I want the guy dead, but that is an impressive bit of, umm putdown. I think the caves would probably preserve remains to be identified, but finding them is the tough part, if he is dead.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by KThunder

Yeah Gordon Duff is nuts.
As for the, ah, curse? Wow, I want the guy dead, but that is an impressive bit of, umm putdown. I think the caves would probably preserve remains to be identified, but finding them is the tough part, if he is dead.

I'm Shi'a, Tabarra is an obligatory part of my religion.

[KThunder]

Originally Posted by the_leander

David Ray Griffin is one of the major movers in conspiracy theory circles. He makes (or at least made) a tidy living selling DVDs to loonspuds convincing them that teh jooz did 9/11... (oh yes, I went there)

He's like the poor man's Alex Jones.

Geeze... See I had never heard of him before today, but it took very little searching to see what little he had.
Alex Jones I've heard before, he's a tough one to listen to or too long. I'm glad he's not a republican anymore.

loonspuds, ha! I had to look it up, but I like it. "particularly mad in a tinfoil hat sort of way"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=loonspud

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by the_leander

David Ray Griffin is one of the major movers in conspiracy theory circles. He makes (or at least made) a tidy living selling DVDs to loonspuds convincing them that teh jooz did 9/11... (oh yes, I went there)

He's like the poor man's Alex Jones.

Alex Jones is a ****!

[Franko]

Ever since my late teens back at the start of the 80's, I pretty quickly learned that EVERYONE in all walks of like is crooked to some degree or other.

Whether it be a Shop Steward taking a back hander to rig a strike vote, a Politician accepting a gift of a case of whisky or donation just to make sure your point of view is heard in the right places, well the list is endless...

I was told for years all through the 90's that my stupid theories on how the Bankers and Governments were all more crooked that your local neigbourhood mugger, were all in my own warped little imagination. Guess who had the last laugh.

All the 'bad stuff' thats happened in the past 10 or 15 years has had no effect on my lifestyle one little bit, recession what recession, I never noticed it. The War On Terror, nothing more than a slight inconvenience to me because of all the news airtime it took up.

Sadly I seem to be one of a kind in this crazy world, too much greed and looking after number one in this society with things only getting worse every minute of every day. If my finger was on the big red button I would happily press it and send the human race back to oblivion where it belongs...

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on your view) the only big red button I've got is on my competition pro joystick, so I'll just have to make do with killing and blowing up everything on screen, smug in knowledge that I was right and when society finally breaks down I can sit in my secret bunker with all my useless cash and tinned food laughing my head off until I finally kick the bucket...

(Remember What Mulder Said TRUST NO ONE...)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Please alert that this thread contains pictures of shocking nature, and absolutely unsuitable for children.

And more on-topic, that face (or what's left of it) doesn't look like Bin Laden. First off the poor guy looks way too young to be Bin Laden.

[Karlos]

Looks more like a photoshop mashup to me. The top part of the head and the lower part don't seem to belong to the same person.