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Old 11-02-2010, 10:17 PM   #1
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Default First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

It's FrankenROM (part Aros, part OS3.0) but it's a huge step forward!

http://www.evillabs.net/wiki/index.php/AROS_m68k-amiga

If you haven't donated to the bounty yet, give this guy a boost!
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/5
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

I still don't understand why you guys want this. AROS was originally designed to be an open sorced re-implementation of WB3.1.
AROS still hasn't been polished enough to br released as a 1.0 package.
If ported to a 68K its likely to be slower and buggier than what you currently use.

Are copyright concerns that significant that it makes sense to expend so much energy just to realize what you already have?
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Because once we have an open source kickstart replacement we're no longer tied to several companies that have abandoned the 68k platform.

We can fix bugs in the ROM and add new features as needed. 060 libraries, CDRom boot, etc.

Most of the 3.x OS problems are already solved on Aros, a video driver SDK for example.

Mini-Mig, NatAmi, WinUAE and others can create and sell compatible systems without legal problems.

This is nothing but a huge benefit to the community.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
AROS still hasn't been polished enough to br released as a 1.0 package.
Says who? I've certainly seen worse - it's for sure a heck lot better shape than Amiga OS 1.0.

Quote:
If ported to a 68K its likely to be slower and buggier than what you currently use.
I do not see why you think this - CBM developers were magicians? You think gcc cannot compile efficient m68k binaries?

At least with AROS bugs can be more easily be fixed, efficiency be improved, without all the hassle needed for tweaking original AmigaOS.

Quote:
Are copyright concerns that significant that it makes sense to expend so much energy just to realize what you already have?
Consider this - one of the big contributers to the m68k kickstart bounty is Cloanto. And people are ofcourse allowed to spend energy on whatever they feel like, the people mostly involved in the m68k port are "new" in AROS context, it's not like this is pulling lots of resources from the rest of the project.

And lastly, I can't help thinking that someone will eventually get AROS running natively on Atari ST and Falcon as well, which would be quite awesome
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
I still don't understand why you guys want this. AROS was originally designed to be an open sorced re-implementation of WB3.1.
AROS still hasn't been polished enough to br released as a 1.0 package.
If ported to a 68K its likely to be slower and buggier than what you currently use.

Are copyright concerns that significant that it makes sense to expend so much energy just to realize what you already have?
Firstly, the people involved in 68k AROS/kickstart replacement werent working on AROS prior to this bounty, so no resources are lost. Also having AROS run on a real 68k Amiga will help greatly in improving api compatibility for other architectures as well as helping with bug fixing. There's also things like minimig, natami, and variations on UAE that benefit. Additionally it can help with UAE intergration in non 68k targets without the need for commercial ROM images. There's a lot of benefits it brings to both AROS and Amiga OS. I don't really understand how people think otherwise.

Oh, and cool stuff in regards to the original post/first screenshot

Last edited by fishy_fiz; 11-02-2010 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
AROS still hasn't been polished enough to br released as a 1.0 package. If ported to a 68K its likely to be slower and buggier than what you currently use.
The other points people have made being well covered, I'd just like to know why you would wait until a 1.0 release (typically a major milestone in open-source projects, and long past the point of basic usability) before providing support for the nominal target platform?

And slower, maybe, but buggier? If anything, the Amiga is likely to be less buggy, as there's a more intuitive architecture (both CPU and hardware) and less extreme variations in setup than on an x86 or even PPC machine.

Quote:
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You think gcc cannot compile efficient m68k binaries?
GCC can't compile efficient anything binaries; what it can do is compile consistently usable binaries on all platforms

Anyway, spiffariffic! I'm not an AROS partisan, but anything that gets 68k Amigas further away from the giant rights tangle-up is okay by me Could use a different splash screen, though; I never did care much for the KS2-3 one anyway.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
GCC can't compile efficient anything binaries; what it can do is compile consistently usable binaries on all platforms
Very true, gcc's claim to fame is just availability.

There's nothing to stop someone from hand optimizing the code where needed though.

It's still far easier than writing the whole Kickstart in assembly, especially when you have the source code available as a reference.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
Could use a different splash screen, though; I never did care much for the KS2-3 one anyway.
I vote for a bouncing Boing Ball, or the Juggler.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

No more silly boing balls please - I very much perfer the one and only true Amiga logo - the checkmark - which btw is free for anyone to use, since none of the Amiga copyright/IP holders cared about it.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

I have a very bad feeling that it will be a sexy animal.

I can appreciate the artwork, but it's not what I want for a boot logo.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Use the checkmark for AROS/m68k I'd say (again).

In time, who knows - maybe one can put out AROS based Amiga OS 3.10 and 3.11 (for workgroups)
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Great screenshot ! AROS is "home" ;-P
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Nice !

Quote:
Mini-Mig, NatAmi, WinUAE and others can create and sell compatible systems without legal problems.
That's the more important I guess.

Not to mention replacing Amiga modules by AROS modules will help to track and fix AROS bugs, that will benefit for the main AROS "distribution" too.

If I understood correctly FrankenROM is made of an Amiga kickstart with some libs replaced with AROS ones ? Currently only AROS exec, right ?

What's the next step ?
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:44 AM   #14
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

I don't know why you would worry about 'a sexy animal'. It's not like someone is going to put graphic genitalia on it. The Kitty pictures that have been used for AROS are no more graphic than what you would find on a Saturday morning cartoon. It is far less sexual than the stuff you would find in childrens movies like Shrek 2 or Happy Feet.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn
Could use a different splash screen, though; I never did care much for the KS2-3 one anyway.
I vote for a bouncing Boing Ball, or the Juggler.
Guys!!! It's AROS, it's open source... you can have whatever boot screen you like

I've waited 10 years to see this. So I'm pretty pleased.

Toni Willen (of UAE fame) has joined the project to help with hardware support, so soon we will have a totally free, UAE... no illegal/grey ROMs needed... Also AROS can be tailored to fit UAE better (more direct hardware control)... only good things can come from this.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
Could use a different splash screen, though; I never did care much for the KS2-3 one anyway.
Well, don't worry that isn't AROS spash screen, but KS 3.0.

As you might remember this current FrankenROM is actually KS 3.0 with some modules replaced with AROS ones ("This is just the AROS Exec, with everything else from AmigaOS KickStart 3.0."). "strap" module (which produces the "please insert disk in the drive" animation) is obviously still KS 3.0 one. Once strap will be replaced the KS 3.0 spash animation will be gone.

This is the very first step on a long road. It gets far more interesting once you start replacing more KS ROM parts. It gets a bit messy once you run into the gazillion compatibility issues in AROS replacement modules. However, now that you can easily switch between the original modules and the AROS ones it will be trivial to use bisect method to track bugs.

Last edited by Piru; 11-03-2010 at 03:44 AM..
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy_fiz View Post
Also having AROS run on a real 68k Amiga will help greatly in improving api compatibility for other architectures as well as helping with bug fixing. There's also things like minimig, natami, and variations on UAE that benefit.
This is so important it's worth repeating.

Being able to run real Amiga programs as test cases, even when we don't have the source, will give us pretty much all of Aminet and a bunch of old commercial apps as a resource to draw on to track down bugs.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

The topic is a bit misleading. The kickstart boot screen is produced by Commodore graphics.library, utility.library, timer.device, ciaa and ciab resources, trackdisk.device, carddisk.device, card.resource and various other components which really are not AROS yet.

I think it's time to get excited once AROS does all of that.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
I do not see why you think this - CBM developers were magicians? You think gcc cannot compile efficient m68k binaries?
To be fair, there *are* parts of AROS that are definitively not optimized for speed and low memory usage, so we will need to work on that once it's up and running.

As an example, the console.device in real AmigaOS has optimizations that only scrolls a single bit plane if the visible text uses only pen 1. AROS doesn't do any bitplane masking yet because it doesn't make any sense on the chunky modes used on PC hardware.

Though many optimizations like that are easy to make once AROS runs on Amiga hardware (in this case, just needs to do a SetWrMask() when we know its safe).
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!

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Originally Posted by Piru View Post
The topic is a bit misleading. The kickstart boot screen is produced by Commodore graphics.library, utility.library, timer.device, ciaa and ciab resources, trackdisk.device, carddisk.device, card.resource and various other components which really are not AROS yet.

I think it's time to get excited once AROS does all of that.
Thanks for the explanation, it's nice to learn about the boot process.

The road is still long to have a true AROS replacement kickstart indeed. But progress is progress... Any idea how long it took MorphOS to get from such level to the level where it completely overtook Commodore's OS ?
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