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Old 10-14-2010, 11:30 AM   #1
deadwood
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Default Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

The Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) bounty has been assigned to Jason McMullan. The bounty aims at enabling AROS to build for m68k Amiga system. This part does not include binary compatibility with existing m68k Amiga applications. The deadline for this work is 31st December 2010.

Jason has been working behind the sceenes for some time and now he has started adding compatibility changes directly to AROS source code tree. For the time beeing he built the kernel and now is working on getting OCS driver implemented.

The bounty details and donate page can be found here
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

This is great news. Not complaining, just asking, isn't this the second or third time this bounty has been assigned? Hopefully this time Jason will have better luck completing it.

Good luck Jason and thanks! Aros on 68k would be awesome!

Steven
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Awesome?

A new kickstart will be interesting for amigaos 3.x, i dont see aros running under 030 and aga.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

More details from the AROS dev mailing list:

Finally, after 3 weeks, first light on my m68k port of AROS to m68k-amiga.

Doesn't work, crashes pretty soon, but I have gotten path the 'compile it',
'compile it with Amiga ABI', and 'get into Exec Init' phases. Very happy.

Other than the giant pile of AROS patches I'll be committing as soon as I
get SVN access, I also have a (tiny) GCC patch that is needed to match
the Amiga ABI, and a e-uae patch to enable serial.

Against current AROS tip, gcc v4.5.1, and e-uae tip:

http://www.evillabs.net/AROS/AROS-20...09-m68k.tar.gz

Also includes a pre-compiled A1200 ROM image, which boots
(and crashes).

---------- ROM Layout -------------------

400K Text, 34K Data, 78K Unused

(You can ignore the .sysbase, .stack, and .bss placeholders,
they take up no ROM space, they're just there for linking)

~/private/AROS $ m68k-elf-objdump -h bin/amiga-m68k/AROS/aros-amiga-m68k.elf

bin/amiga-m68k/AROS/aros-amiga-m68k.elf: file format elf32-m68k

Sections:
Idx Name Size VMA LMA File off Algn
0 .sysbase 00000008 00000000 00000000 00002000 2**0
ALLOC
1 .stack 0000fff8 00000008 00000008 00002000 2**0
ALLOC
2 .bss 000013d0 00010000 00010000 00002000 2**4
ALLOC
3 .text 0006363a 00f80000 00f80000 00002000 2**3
CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE
4 .rodata 00008b80 00fe363a 00fe363a 0006563a 2**1
CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA


---------- From my UAE session ----------
(NOTE: This is a stock Amiga 1200 (2M) simulation,
the output below the '=======' is from the UAE
simulated serial port)

Building CPU function table, 45674 opcodes (2 0 0).
Resetting frame rate hack
Using 24 bit visual, 32 bits per pixel
Using MIT-SHM extension.
reset at 0
PAL mode, 50Hz (h=227 v=312)
chipmem cleared
SERIAL: period=368, baud=9600, hsyncs=16 PC=f80d2e
================================================== ==
[reset]
[bss clear]
gdb stub[prep SysBase]
peb SysBase: 0004040e
PrepareExecBase [ret]: 0004040e
[init SysBase]
RomTagScanner: Start = 00f80000, End = 01000000
Resident modules (18) (addr: pri version name) at 0x40870:
+ 0x00feae1e: 127 3 "kernel.resource"
+ 0x00fe3ade: 105 41 "exec.library"
+ 0x00fe8822: 103 41 "utility.library"
+ 0x00fe6006: 102 41 "aros.library"
+ 0x00feb08e: 99 2 "processor.resource"
+ 0x00feabde: 92 1 "hiddclass.hidd"
+ 0x00fe72ba: 65 41 "graphics.library"
+ 0x00fe9c0a: 50 41 "timer.device"
+ 0x00fead6e: 45 41 "battclock.resource"
+ 0x00fe9f12: 44 41 "keyboard.device"
+ 0x00fe95fe: 40 41 "keymap.library"
+ 0x00fe9d3e: 30 41 "input.device"
+ 0x00fe89de: 15 50 "intuition.library"
+ 0x00fea062: 4 41 "console.device"
+ 0x00fe611e: -120 41 "dos.library"
+ 0x00fe675a: -123 41 "LDDemon"
+ 0x00fea4ee: -124 41 "con.handler"
+ 0x00feaabe: -125 41 "nil.handler"
[start] InitCode(RTF_SINGLETASK, 0)
[start] InitCode(RTF_COLDSTART, 0)
[libcall Exec Init]
[exec] GO GO GO!
################################################## ##############################
# Software Failure! #
# Task 00000000 - --task not found-- #
# Error 81000005 - Corrupt memory list detected #
################################################## ##############################
reset at f80ec0


And more news:

- Jason McMullan has now SVN access to the AROS tree
- ABI issues appear to be fixed (native)
- library init successful up to graphics.library and intuition.library
- working on OCS single-plane HIDD
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Hmm... I don't wish to appear to be too negative, but what advantage would you get from running AROS on a 'classic' Amiga, over WB3.1?

Wouldn't it be better to concentrate more effort to improving AROS drivers and compatibility with x86 systems?

Just wondering...

Cheers,

Mike.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

People need to stop thinking that what is to them "pointless" things to work on will somehow take away development from other parts of AROS! this is one guy who wanted to do this particular bounty, if he didnt work on this one, chances are he wouldn't work on anything else in AROS either, and this is true with a lot of bountys and other AROS related work. People come or join in to work on stuff they want and quite a few stop contributing to AROS once they reached they're goals whatever they may be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mingle View Post
Hmm... I don't wish to appear to be too negative, but what advantage would you get from running AROS on a 'classic' Amiga, over WB3.1?

Wouldn't it be better to concentrate more effort to improving AROS drivers and compatibility with x86 systems?

Just wondering...

Cheers,

Mike.
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Benefits would be:

1. Working "out of box" Amiga clones, wihout needing permission from anyone
a) minimig
b) natami
c)...
* Minimig could be mainstream product with this


2. No need to build custom kickstart yourself
a) CD-rom boot, maybe rtg support build in
b) Possibility to manufacture and sell replacements kickstarts

3. Future developement
a) Projects like natami would get big benefit of this and theory maybe even coldfire accelerators.
b) ...

4.
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

....benefits once the binary compatibility phase is completed too, right?
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
Benefits would be:

1. Working "out of box" Amiga clones, wihout needing permission from anyone
a) minimig
b) natami
c)...
* Minimig could be mainstream product with this


2. No need to build custom kickstart yourself
a) CD-rom boot, maybe rtg support build in
b) Possibility to manufacture and sell replacements kickstarts

3. Future developement
a) Projects like natami would get big benefit of this and theory maybe even coldfire accelerators.
b) ...

4.
Then this idea isnt for real amigas, then another way to add to, mos, os4 and aros
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Finally took the time to find out what on earth AROS was all about, basically to me it's just like MorphOS, WarpOS or OS4.x.

After all the posts I've seen here on Amiga.org with people praising AROS, I can only say that I'm kinda disappointed, was hoping to find that it was something that would be useful to me on my various A1200s, or have I missed the point about AROS...
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Besides giving MiniMig and the like a compatible OS to run out of the box, it would also allow AROS x86 to be backward compatible with original Amiga software. With the UAE integration that has happenened, 68k software running on AROS x86 looks pretty good. The achillies heal of this it the fact that to legally run this you have to buy a commercial product. So, AROS x86 is backward compatible, but the backward compatibility is not open source like the rest of the OS.

If it helps you appreciate it, just think of it as Amiga68k.hidd.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Ignore....double post.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Then this idea isnt for real amigas, then another way to add to, mos, os4 and aros
No, it's for real Amigas. The point is to run AROS in 68k Amigas without having to rely on the Commodore licensed ROMs and to have an AROS user interface.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko View Post
Finally took the time to find out what on earth AROS was all about, basically to me it's just like MorphOS, WarpOS or OS4.x.

After all the posts I've seen here on Amiga.org with people praising AROS, I can only say that I'm kinda disappointed, was hoping to find that it was something that would be useful to me on my various A1200s, or have I missed the point about AROS...
Unless I'm completely off the mark (it's been years since I help push this bounty into reality), the initial reason for this is to move forward on a FOSS kickstart ROM. Once someone picks up and completes Phase2, then there will be zero need for any commercial software (kickstart or WB) in UAE.

Can this be ported to individual Amigas for native running? With alot of work, I don't see why it would be impossible. AROS can be the life line for Amiga68K as future kickstart/wb upgrades. Life for your old friend may not have to stop at 3.9, just takes a huge amount of work is all. ;-)
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrellsl View Post
No, it's for real Amigas. The point is to run AROS in 68k Amigas without having to rely on the Commodore licensed ROMs and to have an AROS user interface.
And to take advantage of a system that is being still developed, and has some neat modern features that AmigaOS for classics never had.
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

I'm not sure why this isn't exciting to Real Amiga owners.

New Kickstart
Potential for CD-Rom boot
Potential replacements for all outdated OS parts
Standards for drivers
Standards for RTG
Standards for PCI access

Most importantly, developers can finally develop RTG and other drivers, bypassing the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!s in control of Picasso, Cybervision and proprietary PCI buses. (If anyone has hurt the 68k cause, it's those guys)

And nobody can sue this project out of business, it's open source so it can live forever.

Once it is ABI compatible, this will be the biggest thing for Amiga since OS3.1!
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Sounds good. Does anyone have a feel for how difficult the binary compatibility part will be to achieve? Also, how high-powered will your classic Amiga have to be in order to run AROS?
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

That's yet to be seen.

There is more to Aros than OS3.1, but then most of us don't run 3.1 as it shipped either.

I'm sure it will take more RAM, but with care there is no reason it can't have similar speed.

I'm sure initially it will be slower, but that can be fixed with enough skill and time.

It's incredibly hard to make binary patches for an OS you don't have the source code for, yet people have patched many improvements into the older AmigaOS.

It's possible that with the source code readily available to more developers, Aros could even be faster than 3.1 someday.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
I'm sure it will take more RAM, but with care there is no reason it can't have similar speed.
Once it stabilizes, one can mix and mingle, and optimize further - no reason really that it must take more RAM, really

Great to see this finally going somewhere.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) Bounty Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
I dont see aros running under 030 and aga.
It already does in parts, you do know that there is AROS code in OS3.9, right?
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