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[Franko]

I would be genuinely interested to know from folk out there what they consider the benefits of using an Amiga emulator or other Amiga set up they have that's not an original piece of Amiga hardware ie: not an A500/600/1200/2000/4000 etc..

I don't want this to become another Amiga Vs PC debate/debacle (I think we've all had enough of that one), but would like to know what you consider the best reasons for using such a set up are, how easy it is or otherwise to maintain such a system, in terms of hardware / software availability, OS type used and general ease of use without going into too much technical detail about it.

I ask because if you've read any of my previous posts I guess I come over as some sort of die hard Amiga hardware only fanatic, who's still living in the past, as many folk have kindly pointed out.

I would really like to hear folks reasons or opinions on this, after reading many posts from such users on this forum, I am seriously considering giving it a go and would really like to know what folk use and consider the best way to go about this would be.

I'm not giving up my classic Amiga set ups, but I am considering dabbling in the dark side to see for myself.

Cheers

Franko

[Matt_H]

WinUAE's JIT emulator and RTG driver make it blazing fast, pretty much as fast as the host system. It's by far the most cost-effective way to run an Amiga system these days, but, as you point out, at the expense of not having real hardware to tinker with. You can run anything that you'd run on a regular Amiga, plus a few more things built with the JIT in mind that are just too slow to run on a real 68K chip, even though they're 68K binaries.

It's free (provide your own ROM and OS) / cheap (ROM and OS preconfigured) to try out, so I recommend giving it a shot. I like it for when I'm on the road with a laptop and want to do some Amiga work/fun.

The biggest caveat is that you can't use real Amiga floppies. Most disks are easily converted into ADF image files, but stuff with on-disk copy protection will be difficult/impossible to convert, so you'll need to find a cracked version online (no legal issues here, since you already own the original). There is some Catweasel support, but my understanding is that it works just like a Catweasel in a real Amiga - it needs a DOSDriver and isn't bootable.

For the host system, pretty much anything running XP or newer will do. There's E-UAE for non-Windows systems, but WinUAE is far superior in terms of ease of use and performance.

[SpitfireTN]

Originally Posted by Franko

I would be genuinely interested to know from folk out there what they consider the benefits of using an Amiga emulator or other Amiga set up they have that's not an original piece of Amiga hardware ie: not an A500/600/1200/2000/4000 etc..

I don't want this to become another Amiga Vs PC debate/debacle (I think we've all had enough of that one), but would like to know what you consider the best reasons for using such a set up are, how easy it is or otherwise to maintain such a system, in terms of hardware / software availability, OS type used and general ease of use without going into too much technical detail about it.

I ask because if you've read any of my previous posts I guess I come over as some sort of die hard Amiga hardware only fanatic, who's still living in the past, as many folk have kindly pointed out.

I would really like to hear folks reasons or opinions on this, after reading many posts from such users on this forum, I am seriously considering giving it a go and would really like to know what folk use and consider the best way to go about this would be.

I'm not giving up my classic Amiga set ups, but I am considering dabbling in the dark side to see for myself.

Cheers

Franko

I moved on to the PC years ago. I was upset when AOL and CompuServe started offering ways to get on the internet. So I called them when I owned my Amiga 500. "I need one of your disks so I can get on the internet" I said. They replied... "Is this IBM Compatible or is it Macintosh Compatible?" I said, "its Amiga Compatible or Commodore Compatible." That's when they let me down, and said... "I am sorry, we only offer programs for the IBM or Mac." That really made me mad, and I knew I couldn't afford two computers, so I ended up selling the Amiga 500 and got my first PC. I regretted that ever since, and now with WinUAE, I can sorta get back and enjoy the Amiga again. Back then I ran BBSes, and that's what I am doing with it today, running a board.

[Cammy]

The only fun I have with a PC is using Aros.

[persia]

The difference between an emulator and an original piece of hardware is in the mind of the owner. Personally I like the convenience of having everything in one box, a Mac Pro. I sometimes put UAE on the 30 inch display, sometimes on the 24, so I can use the other display to do work. Never driver problems, never hardware issues, it all just works. Sometimes I have AROS or Haiku in one monitor and UAE in the other.

I find I use the old hardware less and less, but I can't yet bear to part with it. But I doubt I'd miss it, the emulation is spot on.

[fishy_fiz]

I used amithlon/os3.9 as my main system for years. Winuae is nice in it's own way, and has the advantage of also having custom chipset emulation (amithlon is rtg/ahi only), but for my tastes it's never felt quite right and amithlon has always been the better experience. It has less hardware support, but with a little shopping around its not too difficult to get a fully supported system, even with modern gear. No host OS is required (well technically Amithlon is the host OS (a customised linux kernel) , but its minimal to a point of never being seen). It's both faster than Winuae and unlike Winuae everything is done from within Amiga OS (drivers, uses amiga os tcp/ip stack,etc.). It's also possible to use native x86 amiga os3.x software from within 68k AmigaOS (although not a lot has been compiled for this architecture) for even more speed. Even when my a1200+bppc+grex1200/voodoo3/256 meg fast system was functional I found Amithlon to be the best OS3.x experience. As for what advantages either bring over classic hardware it mostly comes down to just performance, which in turn opens up new doors to OS3.x.... high res video files run flawlessly, duke3d, quake, quake2, freespace, napalm, and many other pieces of software that even the most expanded classics might struggle with run nicely, various emulators (mame, megadrive, super nintendo,playstation,etc.) all run great, sdl software is suddenly more than usable, compiling times drastically improve, lots of room for OS enhancements (afa os,etc.) without hurting performance, 3d rendering software is drastically faster and so on.... in short imagine a classic amiga with an '040 running at speeds 20x (and then some(sysinfo tells me I have roughly a 3.5ghz '040, but to be fair synthetic benchmarks and emulation dont always represent the true tale)) than that of the fastest '060. To suppliment the lack of custom chipset emulation there's also a 68k version of euae (I simply set up a def type to launch adf images with euae), although if you have a classic amiga already this may not be so important (although I also at one point ran my classic through a tv tuner card inside amithlon/os3.9)..... on an even modest pc you get 680x0 speeds in excess of what any available OS4.x hardware can provide for native ppc software. This is mostly true of Winuae as well, but if your interest in a pc is soley for what it brings to the amiga table Amithlon is the way to go in my opinion (assuming you can find it of course, as its no longer sold).
Now having said this it took a while, but AROS has gotten to the point where it's a serious alternate option. It doesnt run amiga software out of the box, but janus uae can create a fairly seemless intergration with things like launching software as normal from Wanderer (AROSes Workbench), aros menus for 68k software, mixing aros and amiga os software as though all native (cycling through screens with the screen gadget, etc.), full screen or windowed apps and so on..... a different method to either os4 or mos, but quite effective nonetheless and the advantage of full emulation and not just system friendly stuff. As nice as it is to have this however the real benefits of something like AROS (or os4.x/mos) is it's more modern software. Although there's probably no software that either have that couldnt be done for os3.x the simple fact is that it seldom is done and often if it is there's not nearly as much time/effort put into OS3.x versions of more modern software.... things like movie players, web browsers, sdl software (Of which there's a lot(although only a small percentage is decent in my op.)), 3d/gl games are all better experiences on the "NG amiga" systems.
Personally I still very much enjoy a lot of classic software and for all the advantages the NG systems offer I cant do without an os3.x system. Having said that though the same is true of the reverse.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Franko

or other Amiga set up they have that's not an original piece of Amiga hardware ie: not an A500/600/1200/2000/4000 etc..

Hardware setups that are not the original hardware (as you've listed), are not Amigas. An Amiga is not some PPC CPU with peecee bits added to it, no matter what anyone calls it Things don't magically turn into Amigas because of some AmigaOs like Os This goes especially for running Aros like software directly on peecees: not an Amiga in any way

[fishy_fiz]

^^
There had to be one didnt there.... very useful contribution to the originals posters questions......

[tone007]

I was only inspired to upgrade a real Amiga to RTG, '060, etc. after using AmiKIT (http://amikit.amiga.sk/ on a PC, and of course after I'd gotten that all done it was not nearly as usable as AmiKIT due to speed, so I sold off the overpriced old hardware and deleted AmiKIT as well (emulation is no fun.) Now I have a cobbled together A500 for when I feel like messing around with Amiga.

[slayer]

He's also incorrect... I mean what exactly was the Amiga supposed to turn into? If it had kept evolving over the last 15 years it wouldn't be unlike the upcoming X1000... probably just higher spec... The SAM and X1000 carry the legitimate version of AmigaOS and for all intents and purposes the hardware is what it basically has to be (some modern variant) it demands my support and I shall support it...

As for the posters query, I can happily say I'm completely ignorant and have no insight whatsoever

[dougal]

I think what makes an Amiga is the whole package. What do i mean?

Well, the SAM440 is just a motherboard. You have to use your own case, keyboard, graphics card, power supply etc..

A real Amiga, from the A1000 up untill the A4000T always came as a complete package. They came with Amiga/Commodore branded keyboards and cases, mice, manuals, software, cables etc.. etc.. You bought your complete system and set it up, just as you would buy an Apple iMac or a Dell PC.

Looking at the mouse and keyboard of the X1000, i'm disgusted. The mouse is so obviously a Logitech mouse with a badly designed sticker over the Logitech one. I can also say the same for the keyboard and the Windows keys with cheap boing ball stickers over them.

I know that these days it makes no sense to have propriety keyboard/mouse ports and all, but for f**ks sake, they could have got their stuff branded properly.

In my opinion, the last REAL Amiga was the A4000T and A1200. The X1000 has potential but they need to put in that extra effort.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by fishy_fiz

There had to be one didnt there.... very useful contribution to the originals posters questions......

You don't get the point The op asks about Amiga setups, but then leaves out all of the actual Amiga computers: A500 to A4000. The only thing that remains then is emulation, while all the other so called Amiga machines, are just PPC with peecee parts. That's great, talking about Amiga setups and then excluding all Amigas! Makes sense, doesn't it

Originally Posted by dougal

In my opinion, the last REAL Amiga was the A4000T and A1200.

You're absolutely right

[loedown]

Emulation provides a steady starting point for testing, whether it be a system config or just a file you're having issues with, Amiga won't let you F12 out when the system goes borked.

[Fester]

My aging 2000 stopped booting last year while I was developing a game on it. So I'd say the aging hardware is one reason to consider emulation. Although for me, dabbling with old Amiga parts is still more fun than just running an emulation on my pc.

[persia]

Had the Amiga kept evolving it would be a computer built out of energy now now out of plastic and silicon...

Seriously, I doubt anything like the X1000 would have been built. The AMiga probably would have moved to X86, moved to a UNIX kernel, added all the features that modern OSs have and be relatively indistinguishable from OS X...

Originally Posted by slayer

He's also incorrect... I mean what exactly was the Amiga supposed to turn into? If it had kept evolving over the last 15 years it wouldn't be unlike the upcoming X1000... probably just higher spec... The SAM and X1000 carry the legitimate version of AmigaOS and for all intents and purposes the hardware is what it basically has to be (some modern variant) it demands my support and I shall support it...

As for the posters query, I can happily say I'm completely ignorant and have no insight whatsoever