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Old 06-09-2010, 07:39 AM   #21
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

In WinUAE, did you use uaehf.device or scsi.device? Uaehf.device has all the modern features that scsi.device lacks: it is able to handle large harddrives with both NSD and TD64 commands and it is independant of MaxTransfer issues.

So if you prepare a harddrive with uaehf.device all might work right in UAE but once you connect to the real Amiga it might not work at all.

And even if you use scsi.device in UAE it might still work better than scsi.device in the real Amiga, because with UAE there is Windows and USB in the middle which might filter out some incompatibilities.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:30 AM   #22
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I used uaehf device in HDToolBox.

I'm gonna trying to do all in the PC with scsi.device.

I will make a copy of System (I have a copy of when it had BB1) to the PC and will reinstall the System drawers from the copy.

EDIT: No, I've remembered the last time I used the Amiga to make the partitions in this CF. Will try with WinUAE this time

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-09-2010 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Anyone with experience with one of the dual CF adaptors?

Like the Addonics AD44MIDE2CF

http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...ad44midecf.asp

Its a 44 pin adaptor that appears that the bottom card is master and the top is slave.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I've just tried partitioning with WinUAE (HdTools as Uaehf), formating with SFS and have the BB2 crash again.
Before doing that I tried to see the partitions with HDTools setting it as scsi.device, but coudn't see the drive with it. I don't know much about WinUAE... how do I do it?

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-09-2010 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

When you add the harddrive, select IDE0 as controller. It's like real hardware: if you connect the HDD to one controller naturally it cannot be seen on another one.

In order to use IDE0 you need to make sure that you emulate a chipset which actually has an IDE controller and that your Kickstart ROM matches this chipset. Easiest way to be sure is to select A1200 from the quickstart menu. If you have an A1200 Kickstart ROM file, that is.
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Ok, I've got WinUAE working with the right Kickstart and IDE0, and made the partitions, but I get a message when I try to format using SFSformat saying "error while initiating the drive, packet request type unknown".
So I've done a quick format without any format (no fast system, no other selected). The thing is I made a copy of SFSformat on one of the partitions and tried to SFSformat in the Amiga, but I get the same message.
Anyway I will go on with the installation, as I believe it isn't neccesary to use that kind of format, is it?

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-09-2010 at 02:53 PM..
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:21 AM   #27
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Quote:
I believe it isn't neccesary to use that kind of format, is it?
I think this has already been discussed a thousand times: you don't need to format a harddrive and you should never format a flash memory drive!

There are no format commands for IDE anyway. The drives are formatted by the manufacturer and you need special manufacturer-specific software to format them again.

The commands issued by the Format program are translated into write commands by the IDE driver. This means that Format does nothing but to write garbage into each and every sector of the harddrive. This is completely unnecessary unless you want to safely destroy all data before you sell the drive.

Writing to every sector on the drive just stresses the drive and in case of flash memory, which has a limited amount of write cycles, significantly reduces the life time.


Quote:
packet request type unknown
Are you sure you use SFS? You can only initialize SFS partitions with SFSFormat. This message implies that you try to format an FFS partition.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:32 AM   #28
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I don't understand what you say about formatting. I never make any complete format since you told me so. I only do a quickformat, as it's a must. In this case I tried with SFSformat that is a quick one too, and finally did a WB quickformat without filling any add.

I followed your fantastic "Quick Installation Guide for OS3.9 on WinUAE (with CD-Rom support)" at some points like create emergency disk and unprotect the df0, and I did with DH0 too, as it didn't write all when it tried to self-install os3.9 from the Sys4Aga I installed first.

Well, it's true that I coudn't make the OS3.9 start from the Emergency Disk, as it didn't find unit 0 (I tried with unit 1 and 2 too, although I only have one cdrom in the laptop), but I installed without it and OS telling I must do it from it, but (that's extrange) with the Emergency disk inside at the end it said as I was installing from the floppy, to press enter if it was inside, and I did so.

The thing is I could install BB1 and BB2, and it worked in the PC, but again it crashed in the Amiga. At least I know it has no relationship with Idefix, as it wasn't installed.

As I see it now, there must be some kind of problem with this Sandisk Ultra CF and the rom update, as I can't explain why the Transcend one works in the same Amiga doing the same.

I believe I will install it again with BB1, as I don't believe BB2 has to be so neccesary, or up to BB2 without rom update.

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-10-2010 at 04:42 PM..
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:12 AM   #29
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Hi again:

As it's been a long time I will resume the thing:

As you know I'm using my 32GB Transcend CF as HD, and I get a problem when I make a cold boot, as the Amiga asks for a floppy to start. Thomas said it hasn't solution, and the only I can do is pressing A+A+Ctrl, start from a warm boot.

That works right and that's what I was using. I have to say I only had installed a Hawk Ramboard.

The thing is that today I've received a fantastic Blizzard 1260 from Stachu and the first thing I see is that when I make the cold boot it starts right, no floppy demand and all perfect.

Thomas can you please tell me why, what has happened? I thought it didn't have any solutin...


EDIT: I have to say I'm happy because I've seen a new Tron movie will be on Cinemas by december

Last edited by Retrofan; 07-01-2010 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:43 AM   #30
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrofan View Post
Hi again:

As it's been a long time I will resume the thing:

As you know I'm using my 32GB Transcend CF as HD, and I get a problem when I make a cold boot, as the Amiga asks for a floppy to start. Thomas said it hasn't solution, and the only I can do is pressing A+A+Ctrl, start from a warm boot.

That works right and that's what I was using. I have to say I only had installed a Hawk Ramboard.

The thing is that today I've received a fantastic Blizzard 1260 from Stachu and the first thing I see is that when I make the cold boot it starts right, no floppy demand and all perfect.

Thomas can you please tell me why, what has happened? I thought it didn't have any solutin...


EDIT: I have to say I'm happy because I've seen a new Tron movie will be on Cinemas by december

I have seen this same behavior before.

Couple years ago I had a stock, unaccelerated A1200 with 4 gig Kingston Elite Pro CF card in it. Booted up fine every time. Added in a Paravision 030 accelerator and I would get the same issue as you. I would have to press Control-A-A and then it would boot up fine off the CF card.


I replaced the Kingston card with an 8 gig Sandisk Ultra card and everything was perfect. Would boot up straight away each time.


Bottom line is that results may vary depending on whether the Amiga has an accelerator, brand of CF card, adaptor used, standard ide port or buffered and etc.


But, I really think the CF card is going to be the difference. The English Amiga board has a large thread about using CF cards on the ide bus in the A600 and A1200. You can see folks vary greatly depending on the brand of CF card.
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:36 AM   #31
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Thanks, @broken. I didn't have idea of it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
I wonder how much magic you interpret into this partition thing. Partitions is a DOS feature. DOS is not even born when hard drives are recognised or not.

The first hard disk related OS part which jumps in after a reset is the hardware driver (scsi.device). It initialises the controller and checks which drives are connected. If your HDD is not recognised at this stage, it is completely ignored in all of the following steps. That's what happens in your Amiga.
The next step is that all recognised harddrives are checked for a valid partition table and a list of possible parttions is created.
Only now it is time for DOS to wake up. If no floppy disk is in the drives and if there are partitions in the list, then dos.library is initialised and the partitions are mounted, i.e. they are copied from the list created before in to the list of devices known to DOS.

You see, if the hardware driver does not recognise the HDD, then there is nothing in DOS or partitons or files which could change this.
That's what Thomas explained, which I find very interesting. What I don't understand is how the booting process can recognize or not the HD depending on the accelerator

Last edited by Retrofan; 07-01-2010 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Dunno.

I think its just a compatibility issue. Generally the Sandisk cards have probably been the most compatible across the board for Amiga users. Granted, other models from other brands can work too...some with limited success and others not at all.
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I'd vote for the completely different timing.

- although the 68060 is much faster than the 68020, its access to the motherboard is slower which makes the entire initialisation process a bit slower
- the accelerator is an expansion card which needs to be initialised before it is used (autoconfig)
- the accelerator has a firmware ROM which is executed before the IDE driver
- perhaps the firmware has some programmed delays, for example to wait for a key press to disable the accelerator

The sum of all these delays is probably just long enough for the CF card to wake up before the IDE driver searches for connected devices.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

That's more or less what I thought too. When I turn the Amiga on with the Blizzard some colors like a rainbow appear before it turns on, and takes a second or two more to start. By the way, is it normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvrVf4mD4KI
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

With a Blizzard 1230 you can also add the scsi kit and use a scsi->ide adapter. With this combination if you don't have anything connected to the motherboard ide, the scsi kit will wait around 30 seconds or more before booting. I had this combination once, though the delay might have been due to me putting memory on the scsi kit only.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I'm thinking about the scsi kit I've go too. I already have a 128mb ram module atached, but would like to put some more.
The fan in the Blizzard seems a good idea (not sure of how much hot it disipates in that side), but I can't use the SCSI kit with it.
I believe I will use a fan at the other side with a heatsink. I've bought this thin one (42mm (L) x 42mm (W) x 10mm (H))


and I have the Amiga over white rubber feets, 1cm up.


I think I will make a cut on the trapdoor to stick the fan over the CPU.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #37
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

@Retrofan,
I'm happy that card arrived safe and working fine :-)

With regards to SCSI KIT used in desktop:
As said it makes sense with SCSI-IDE converter and installing CF card.
Using real 3,5" SCSI drive inside desktop it's also possible, but required some modification inside and unfortunately SCSI HDD are usually louder than IDE.

And to use SCSI KIT you have to remove the fan and install this fan somewhere else (cutting trapdoor and installing fan here seems to be good idea).

With regards to 30 seconds delay during booting from SCSI:
These 30 seconds delays were introduced in KS3.1 to give some time to IDE devices to start after power-on.
And these 30 second occurs ONLY if there is no device connected to A1200 onboard IDE.

If you will connect onboard A1200 IDE to any IDE device or IDE-CF adapter and put small CF card in it and connect power; you will notice that these 30 seconds delay are gone.

So in short:
To decrease boot time with SCSI KIT please connect any IDE device to A1200 onboard IDE.
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:46 AM   #38
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Try with this last version of IDEfix : http://aminet.net/driver/media/IDEFix_patches.lha
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:10 AM   #39
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I have those patches alredy installed (wasn't easy) because I got the Amiga crashing with the big HD CF and the internal CD rom after installed the normal Idefix. After I installed the patches everything runs ok. Still haven't tried the SCSI kit, and what I'm hearing about those 30 seconds delay for booting is new for me.

I wasn't planning to put or use the scsi cable because I'm planning to use the small plastic trapdoor hole for the Indivision Aga output (BTW, has any one for sale? I've been told they will be for sale again in september) and a USB connection from a Subway USB connector I'm waiting to arrive from AmigaKit...; both in the same place. In fact, yesterday I did a metal plaque for them (photos).

I'm thinking to put only one USB port of the 4 it has. Do you believe it's necessary more than one?
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:50 AM   #40
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

That looks nice Retro .

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