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Old 06-05-2010, 08:18 AM   #1
Retrofan
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Default Another big CF issue

Hi:
Well, I have my Sandisk 16GB CF working with the patched Idefix and using SFS. In that I used partitions under 4gb. One thing I must say is I didn't do the format using SMS but the quick Workbench one. I don't know if I should use it now, as it's running fine.

The thing is I've bought a Trascend 32Gb CF and have installed it using SFS format, patched Idefix and three partitions: the bootable with 512Mb, the second with 3Gb and the latest with 28GB.

If I turn on the Amiga I get the Install disk screen. If I do with the install one I see no partitions, if I use HDToolBox it shows the partitions (only the first two ones), but if I save the changes or not doesn't matter because yes, after a reboot I got all the system working fine with all the partitions, but after a cold reboot I get again the install disk screen.

I've tried to use the HDInstallTools, but even saving changes I get always the install disk screen after a cold reboot (not after a quick one).

What's wrng?

Ah! Yes, Thomas you're always wellcome...

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-05-2010 at 08:24 AM..
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Known issue with some CF cards. Similar to the slow spin up problem of some harddrives. AFAIK nobody has found a solution for that yet. Just press Ctrl-A-A after power on.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Dude, don't use a 16 GB CF card on your Amiga. Find a 1,2, 4 GB SandDisk card and go with that. You are asking for trouble.
Why would you need 16 or 32 GB?

I say with friendliness and experience.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Its best to trust genuine Sandisk brand for use with the Amiga

We sell brand new 4GB CF Hard Drives (Sandisk brand/prepped/Amiga formatted) here:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=883

Note: Avoid Kingston branded CF cards due to Amiga compatibility problems.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I've got a 4Gb Kingston elite pro CF that goes perfect. The 16GB Sandisk's one goes perfect too (after the nightmare with the Idefix problem). I believe I have no reason to format that one using SFS as I read, because at the instructions it says it's enough with a quick format, and it doesn't talk about using SFS format. Anyway, I've used it with the Trascend one.

I forgot to comment that the Sandisk Ultra CF I've got doubles the speed of the Sandisk Ultra II one (30MB/s against 15Mb/s). I thought Utra II should be better than "Ultra" alone, but it's the opposite.

Coudn't it be fixed changing something in the Startup sequence?

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-05-2010 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Quote:
Coudn't it be fixed changing something in the Startup sequence?
Use your brain. How should a file stored on the HDD be able to influence something if the entire HDD is not recognised?
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

So do you think even if I make the partitions under 4Gb it won't work?
Yes... if you say it's a hardware problem, I can't do anything, but I don't give up so easily...

About brains... I think I will taste yours...

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-05-2010 at 04:53 PM..
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I wonder how much magic you interpret into this partition thing. Partitions is a DOS feature. DOS is not even born when hard drives are recognised or not.

The first hard disk related OS part which jumps in after a reset is the hardware driver (scsi.device). It initialises the controller and checks which drives are connected. If your HDD is not recognised at this stage, it is completely ignored in all of the following steps. That's what happens in your Amiga.
The next step is that all recognised harddrives are checked for a valid partition table and a list of possible parttions is created.
Only now it is time for DOS to wake up. If no floppy disk is in the drives and if there are partitions in the list, then dos.library is initialised and the partitions are mounted, i.e. they are copied from the list created before in to the list of devices known to DOS.

You see, if the hardware driver does not recognise the HDD, then there is nothing in DOS or partitons or files which could change this.

Quote:
About brains... I think I will taste yours...
Well, it's known that threadworms can learn from others by eating them. AFAIK this is not possible with humans (or humanoids).
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Well, like always it seems Thomas is right... but it isn't really a big problem, if you turn on the Amiga you only have to use the Ctrl-A-A when it asks for the floppy as Thomas said and it starts right.

As I'm a little perfectionist I will sell it to someone that has to own OS3.9 and a Whdload license as it will have 1,6GB of games installed. It has a patched Idefix (you should own it too) and Sys4Aga. I believe 80 euros is a good price (look: http://computers.pricegrabber.com/flash-memory/Transcend-32GB-CompactFlash-Card/m61755784.html ).
It was installed for an A1200 with an internal Cd rom.

PM are wellcome!

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-05-2010 at 06:29 PM..
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
The first hard disk related OS part which jumps in after a reset is the hardware driver (scsi.device).
Sorry to insist, but coudn't a patched scsi.device solve the problem?
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrofan View Post
Sorry to insist, but coudn't a patched scsi.device solve the problem?
Yes, but how do you want to patch it if you cannot boot? You would have to put the patch into some kind of ROM. For example you could make your own Kickstart ROM which contains the patched scsi.device and burn it into an EPROM to replace the original Kickstart ROM. Or a flash ROM like on the Deneb USB controller. IMHO the latter is even more sure than the former because it's not said that the patched scsi.device will help, but the Deneb does a reset to activate updated modules, just like OS 3.9's SetPatch and this reset will surely help.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Thanks. I've come to the conclusion that pressing three buttons at the same time isn't the greatest problem in the world, I think I can do it, or if I forget how, I can write a manual...

About why to use a 32Gb CF, I've just discovered KGWHD preinstalled Whdload Games, and it seems they will take up much room on it...
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Old 06-07-2010, 03:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I'm going to copy 3,43 GB of KGWHD games using WinUAE. Before I had done drawers transfer using a PC with XP, but now I will use a Laptop with Vista. I didn't get the option of add Harddrive as I have in the XP and started to search in Google. I was going to try the -disablehardddrivesafetycheck, but I've discovered that if I make a shortcut of winuae.exe at the Desktop and simply make a right click on it and select Execute as Administrator I get the Add Harddrive option and I can read and write on it.

The question is: what do you need -disableharddrivesafetycheck for?
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Quote:
what do you need -disableharddrivesafetycheck for?
You don't need it. It does not exist any more in recent versions of WinUAE. Older versions refused to add media with a PC partition table to WinUAE, even if it's empty. The command line option was the a around that. Recent versions have more intelligent checks. They only refuse to add drives with partitions on them.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:41 AM   #15
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

You guys have me a bit paranoid. Or rather Thomas does.

I see this discussion is for OS 3.x users, and it appears that OS 3.9 users do not have to worry about Hard Drive size limitations. Assuming I am reading all correctly.

The reason I am curious is because I just received a new Kingston 8Gb CF in the mail, I'm using OS 3.9, and was able to set up the Partition tables in WinUAE, format on the A1200, and boot without issues. Shouldn't I be having problems being that it is a Kingston? Is there something I have to worry about down the road such as random data loss or some jazz?
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

There are only two major issues with CF cards:

1. if the CF card identifies itself as a removable device, then it might not be recognised on the Amiga or might be refused by HDToolbox and similar programs. Behaviour might be different depending on which driver you use, i.e. Kick 3.1 scsi.device, OS 3.9 scsi.device, IDEfix or something else.

If your Amiga accepts the card as a harddrive, then you are fine.

Some removable cards can be redefined as fixed with some PC software. AFAIK such software only exists for Sandisk cards, therefore if you cought a removable card of another brand, you've bad luck.

2. IDE devices like CF cards will produce corrupted data if the MaxTransfer value is too high. The maximum possible MaxTransfer value for IDE is 0x1fe00 (255 blocks of 512 bytes each). Unfortunately WB 3.1's HDToolbox defaults to 0xffffff which is way too high.

Make sure that your MaxTransfer is set correctly for all partitions, then you are fine.

If both of the above is taken care of, then the card should work, no matter which brand it is.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Good to hear!
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Just an FYI. 8GB authentic SANDisk CFs work fine in an A1200 and A4000. Or at least they do in mine.

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Old 06-08-2010, 08:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

Yep 2 Amiga 1200's rev 2B running Sandisk Ultra II and III CF 8GB, Delock CF Adapters and both Blizzard 1230IV with 64MB running Classic WB 3.1.
Both stable

These are the CF adapters:

http://www.vesalia.de/e_cfide4044adapter.htm
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Another big CF issue

I don't know what happens. I've got two (well, I have three) CF: the 16Gb Sandisk and the 32 GB Transcend, and both have some problems. The Transcend has the cold boot one, but for the rest goes right, I've installed Boing Bag 3 and runs fine.

But the other, the Sandisk that was running fine crashes in the same Amiga when I try to install Boing Bag 2 with the Rom update. I've tried it twice with the same result. If I try it in WinUAE it runs Ok, but in the amiga only get a black screen. Why?

Last edited by Retrofan; 06-08-2010 at 04:54 PM..
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