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Amiga.org Amiga computer related discussion Amiga community support ideas New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

Amiga community support ideas This forum is for the open discussion of new thoughts and ideas intended to help the Amiga community. What do we need? What do we want?

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Old 05-28-2010, 09:49 AM   #41
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by BigBenAussie View Post
@Tone007
Why you feel the urge to stomp on this, when this represents the ONLY chance of a Commodore comeback. I really don't know. (sigh)
I suspect he feels the urge to stomp on this because it looks like (yet another) fly-by-night attempt to rape the corpse of one of his childhood friends. That's sort of what it feels like to me, anyway. I don't get the sense that there's (much) money behind this, therefore I expect the chances of this succeeding are about nil. I don't see good branding. I don't see any consideration for design. I don't see any compelling marketing. I don't see any compelling software. When I was talking about hiring software engineers to write a custom GUI on a *nix base, I was thinking more of an OS X sort of deal, not re-skinning Ubuntu.

Christ, man, we should be the most FERVENT of your target audience. If you can't sell us, how to you expect to sell anyone else?
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:51 AM   #42
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Christ, man, we should be the most FERVENT of your target audience. If you can't sell us, how to you expect to sell anyone else?
+1
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:11 AM   #43
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by abbub View Post
No, I agree completely. In fact, my problem with these latest 'products' isn't the internals, it's the externals and the software.

Two brilliant case studies for what Commodore needs to do are already out in the market place and do quite well: the 'New Beetle' and the 'new MINI'. Both pay massive amounts of homage to the original, iconic product, while still managing to modernize the brand.

They need to limit themselves to one primary sku, and actually hire a designer to create a new case for it that looks cool, retro, and most importantly, like a Commodore. Also, beige is the new black. Embrace it.

I'd also hire some software engineers. I think you could easily get away using linux or BSD as the base for the OS (Darwin?!), but you have to write a custom GUI for it that also manages to look modern yet retro. You might even be able to get away with using a modified version of something like Haiku on it. I definatly would NOT ship it with Windows. Windows should be a boot camp sort of option. It's going to be a niche market one way or the other to begin with, so why not embrace that? From the software side, I'd be trying to move towards an Apple model.

Built-in emulation would be a given, but also get some guys to re-write and modernize some classic games from the C64 and include them with the system.

Finally you need marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing. Reaching out to a bunch of guys on an Amiga retro website is easy. You need to convince the 30-40 year olds who played with commodores when they were kids that this is the machine that can take them back to a time when computers were for fun, not spreadsheets.

...oh, you also need to keep this less than $500 a unit.
There are a range of machines for different people. Cutting off at a particular price only has people saying "if only they". You can't please everyone with one product, you can't even do that with many products. You create a range and people buy according to what they're willing to spend and their sensibilities. Should Apple only have one product? What you are asking for would be suicidal.

You don't think these devices are a modern spin on the Computer in a keyboard concept so reminiscent of Comodore's computer heritage? Look at any review of these kinds of machines from other companies and you will more often than not see reference to Commodore. New designs costs a lot of money and there is no guarantee of success. There will be new designs. The Commodore Phoenix is an apt name as it will help Commodore rise from the ashes. It will lead to bigger and better things.

I pushed for Beige. Barry laughed at me. Oh well. People also want the machine to boot into the Blue/Cyan ready screen too. I have to think beige is a rather acquired taste these days. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ask for a beige Amiga either. I see people asking for black. The Phoenix I chose is silver and black, with black keys. Suits my monitor decor and desk. But hey, maybe that's just me.

Wait, so you're going to pick....Darwin, or Haiku, over AROS. How very un-Amigan of you. :-D
I've already mentioned the desire to put AROS as a standard boot option. If you couple it with ROMS it could provide the ultimate Commodore retro experience. It is not about being Apple. You simply can't go and build something new that is as good as MacOSX anyway and it's suicide to try. AROS does not pretend to be the greatest system ever, but provide an Amiga-like experience that returning Commodore fans will likely enjoy AS A HOBBY. Ya know, do you remember when computers were fun? You can't expect Commodore to, all by themselves, come up with a revolutionary new operating system to compete with the likes of Apple no matter what short-cuts they take. People already lament that MacOSX is just another unix/linux. Could you imagine what Amigafiles would say?

I'll say it again. As the machines sell, and they will, there will be new designs that will likely be more to your tastes.

Windows is only an option right now. The machines currently ship with the latest Ubuntu as standard. There will hopefully be more options in time for the official launch in Q3. I may have mentioned that I will be attempting to quadruple boot, Win7, Ubuntu, MacOSX and AROS, when I get my Phoenix.

In our e-mails Commodore USA's owner has told me that there will be a significant amount spent on marketing. Much more than the last Commodore companies seemed to have spent. They came and died without me even knowing they were there. There are some interesting advertising ideas kicking about. I am confident you'll hear about Commodore in the mainstream soon enough. Hopefully it wont be cringe-worthy, but I'm sure there'll be haters. There are always haters.

What you are asking in terms of revamps of Commodore games is outside Commodore's area of interest. Isn't something like that more down Hyperion's alley? You should accost them. If you could run a multitude of classic games, hopefully, out of the box, that would be an achievement in itself. You've got to leave something for third parties to create.

Last edited by BigBenAussie; 05-28-2010 at 10:16 AM..
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:11 AM   #44
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

While I like the geek factor of a Commodore label, it is not worth a premium over the same product without a Commodore label. So far I don't see a product by this may-one-day-be-branded-Commodore company that I want. Then again I don't like my PCs as all in one, I like towers with lots of slots.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:11 AM   #45
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

I will just build my own power house computer and slap a C= sticker on the side.

and then give it some goony name that makes it sound futuristic.

I will call it the Nebulatron

Isn't that what they are doing?
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:15 AM   #46
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

I must be missing something here.. so you have a full size keyboard and your looking down and to the right at this dinky 7" screen, for what? Future neck problems? Seems silly to me. This vs an iPad, no brainer iPad wins.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:17 AM   #47
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by BigBenAussie View Post
In our e-mails Commodore USA's owner has told me that there will be a significant amount spent on marketing. Much more than the last Commodore companies seemed to have spent.
There nothing better than free marketing.

Speaking of which, have any of you seen any actual marketing efforts from Commodore USA, other than getting people post to blogs and forums about it?

Last edited by Piru; 05-28-2010 at 10:21 AM..
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #48
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by Piru View Post
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04...ame_kerfuffle/

This is just lame. Avoid.

@BigBenAussie

You're being used. I'd seriously reconsider dealing with this Altman guy.
@Piru.
Thanks for your concern. However, you are rehashing old arguments that I know you and I have already discussed previously. In fact, up until recently there was a link to that article right from Commodore USA's website. He only removed it *today* to add the Commodore Invictus to the front page. Ya see, he's got nothing to hide. The Inquirer like Engadget and most of the tech blogs are all about sarcasm, snide remarks and snickering, and this kind of storm in a teacup is expected. The trademark negotiations are going forward with the correct trademark owner as planned and will be wrapped in a couple of weeks.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:26 AM   #49
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by BigBenAussie View Post
What you are asking in terms of revamps of Commodore games is outside Commodore's area of interest.
Barrydore's area of interest is simply to make money on an old name, don't expect anything more!
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:30 AM   #50
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

Are you keepin up with the Barrydore!?

CAUSE THE BARRYDORE IS KEEPING UP WITH YOU.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:31 AM   #51
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by Arkhan View Post
Are you keepin up with the Barrydore!?

CAUSE THE BARRYDORE IS KEEPING UP WITH YOU.
+1
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:36 AM   #52
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by Piru View Post
There nothing better than free marketing.

Speaking of which, have any of you seen any actual marketing efforts from Commodore USA, other than getting people post to blogs and forums about it?
I post here voluntarily as a Commodore fan. Some people might be interested. Perhaps I'll know better next time. Maybe I'll never learn. Oh well. Nothing lost, except time posting.

Commodore haven't officially launched yet, but there was no point in waiting until then, when some products are already in place. Advertising hasn't even started and there has already been significant response. The current site is merely for research purposes. You don't like this whole effort. Fine. You're all sounding like a bunch of George Lucas haters lamenting the new Starwars trilogy. Fine. It doesn't mean it wont be successful. I'm sorry you can't share in my excitement and hope for this new Commodore enterprise.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:38 AM   #53
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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There nothing better than free marketing.
I disagree free food and Amigas are much better than free marketing..lol
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:44 AM   #54
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Originally Posted by BigBenAussie View Post
There are a range of machines for different people. Cutting off at a particular price only has people saying "if only they". You can't please everyone with one product, you can't even do that with many products.
This, more than anything else you've said, exemplifies why this is a pipe dream. You're not...or, at least you shouldn't be, trying to please everyone. You're not even trying to please most everyone. The target should be a VERY niche market to begin with.

Quote:
You create a range and people buy according to what they're willing to spend and their sensibilities. Should Apple only have one product? What you are asking for would be suicidal.
Did not Apple start out with only one product? Was it suicidal? With this effort, I think you need to emulate the early days of computing not only with your design, but with your philosophy. You start out with one model and then build up from there. One model, by the way, doesn't mean that you don't have different memory options, storage options, network options, etc. But you want to make ONE machine that LOOKS like a commodore.

Quote:
You don't think these devices are a modern spin on the Computer in a keyboard concept so reminiscent of Comodore's computer heritage?
Once you get past 'the CPU is INSIDE the keyboard', all similarities to Commodore ends. Maybe this thing is a modern spin on a ZX Spectrum? That seems as possible, if not more, than it being an homage to Commodore.

Quote:
New designs costs a lot of money and there is no guarantee of success. There will be new designs.
This is true. That's the nature of business...it takes money to make money, and there's no guarantee that you'll make money.

Quote:
The Commodore Phoenix is an apt name as it will help Commodore rise from the ashes.
I bet you $20 it won't.


Quote:
I pushed for Beige. Barry laughed at me.
Sounds like Barry doesn't know his target demographic.

Quote:
People also want the machine to boot into the Blue/Cyan ready screen too. I have to think beige is a rather acquired taste these days. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ask for a beige Amiga either. I see people asking for black.
Black is everywhere. Black is a dell, an HP, even an Apple. A nice retro beige case is where to go...retro should be a big part of the campaign for this thing, and beige is the ultimate retro. And you don't chase after what people say they want. You show them something that they didn't know they wanted and you MAKE them want it.

Quote:
Wait, so you're going to pick....Darwin, or Haiku, over AROS. How very un-Amigan of you. :-D
Yes, but I'm not trying to recreate an Amiga. I'm trying to recreate a commodore 64. There are A LOT of people out there who used C64s who never had a thing to do wtih Amigas.

Quote:
I've already mentioned the desire to put AROS as a standard boot option. If you couple it with ROMS it could provide the ultimate Commodore retro experience.
Again, is the goal here to recreate a C64, or an Amiga?

Quote:
It is not about being Apple. You simply can't go and build something new that is as good as MacOSX anyway and it's suicide to try.
I disagree. I say it's suicide to not try.

Quote:
You can't expect Commodore to, all by themselves, come up with a revolutionary new operating system to compete with the likes of Apple no matter what short-cuts they take. People already lament that MacOSX is just another unix/linux.
That's EXACTLY what I expect Commodore to do. And that's why this will fail, because the copyright owner doesn't have the vision, the capital, or the will to actually do it.

They do? Apple users I know fall into two categories: people like me, who appreciate the fact that Apple has provided the ultime *nix on the desktop while linux users chase their tails (and often bad mouth apple in the process), and people like my niece, who uses OS X daily, and has no idea what a *nix operating system even is, much less that she's using one.

Quote:
In our e-mails Commodore USA's owner has told me that there will be a significant amount spent on marketing. Much more than the last Commodore companies seemed to have spent.
There's more to marketing than money. It needs to be good marketing, and I think the cats already out of the bag, anyway.

Quote:
What you are asking in terms of revamps of Commodore games is outside Commodore's area of interest.
It's the software, stupid. Part of the marketing campaign is actually showing this system doing something *unique*. If they expect that people will just start developing for it on their own, they're out of their mind.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:48 AM   #55
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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The Commodore Phoenix is an apt name as it will help Commodore rise from the ashes.
Yes only for it to go down in flames yet again.

Sounds like a great plan!
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:54 AM   #56
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

As an aside, anyone know the color mix for Amiga 2000 tan? If I get a spray can of that I may go apey and spray every computer in the house with it!


MMMmmm.... Xbox 360, Amiga edition
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:59 AM   #57
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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MMMmmm.... Xbox 360, Amiga edition

that extra layer of paint will cause it to overheat probably, lol.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:01 AM   #58
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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that extra layer of paint will cause it to overheat probably, lol.

Sshh!!! It's monitoring this network! Don't give it any ideas!

Ironically, this is xbox #4 for me. I think GameCrazy rues the day I bought the extra warranty. It's paid for itself three times over.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:02 AM   #59
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

Ok @abbub
How do you recreate a Commodore 64? I'm listening.

Not one of those lame Webit things with a c64 emulator and a browser I hope.
You want something that evokes the spirit of the C64...then how?
How can you do it differently to what everyone else is doing.
You want Commodore to go into the OS business. The perfect OS... where is it then?
Hell, if Hyperion had an x86 version of AmigaOS, you don't think Commodore wouldn't come calling?

You want what people will regard as "just another unix", with a bit of retro eye-candy on top. But how is that different? You could make yet another Linux distro. But so what. At least AROS has retro going for it and being a clone of Commodore's AmigaOS is something at least. It lacks things but is developing quickly and modern enough to be used today. It's simple and lightening quick, and I thought that was what we all loved about AmigaOS.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:19 AM   #60
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Default Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA

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Ok @abbub
How do you recreate a Commodore 64? I'm listening.

Not one of those lame Webit things with a c64 emulator and a browser I hope.
You want something that evokes the spirit of the C64...then how?
How can you do it differently to what everyone else is doing.
You want Commodore to go into the OS business. The perfect OS... where is it then?
Hell, if Hyperion had an x86 version of AmigaOS, you don't think Commodore wouldn't come calling?

You want what people will regard as "just another unix", with a bit of retro eye-candy on top. But how is that different? You could make yet another Linux distro. But so what. At least AROS has retro going for it and being a clone of Commodore's AmigaOS is something at least. It lacks things but is developing quickly and modern enough to be used today. It's simple and lightening quick, and I thought that was what we all loved about AmigaOS.
Many people have made the point that hardware no longer sells a computer. It is software, simple as that. Amiga was the last time I intentionally bought hardware. When I moved to Apple I bought a Power Computing clone. When apple yanked the clone licenses, I went straight to COSTCO and bought the cheapest fastest pentium they had. After that I have built every computer I owned since out of the cheapest/best parts, regardless of manufature and thrown either windows or linux on them. I am more dedicated to the software I run independent of the OS. For example, I have Gimp on all my win/lin/mac boxen. I like Firefox exclusively.

For Commodore to make any serious headway into the "Lookit me!" market, its going to need to be the size of a Pip-Boy, display images softwired to your neural network directly into your brain, have terabyte upon terabyte of data storage/access ability, communicate with anyone or anything telepathically, and cost 200 bucks. IMHO.
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