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Offline AmigazTopic starter

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PFS3 block size
« on: May 09, 2010, 05:30:26 PM »
Was ages ago I installed an Amiga HDD with PFS3 so I've forgot what the best block size is for this filesystem?
I plan to use PFS3 on a SCSI hdd hooked up to a Cyberstorm MKIII
The Amigaguide doc's for PFS3 says nothing about the block size
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Offline rvo_nl

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 06:17:43 PM »
IIRC it should be set to 512.. kb (?)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 06:20:35 PM by rvo_nl »
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Offline Karlos

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2010, 06:29:29 PM »
^ 512 bytes, I think that should be.
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Offline Piru

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 06:43:10 PM »
Quote from: AMIGAZ;557361
what the best block size is for this filesystem?

512 bytes
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Offline AmigazTopic starter

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 08:49:51 PM »
Thanks, guys :-)
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Offline orange

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 10:23:38 PM »
iirc, someone here before said that pfs3 ignores block size and always uses 512bytes?
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Offline AmigazTopic starter

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 07:50:45 AM »
Actually had it set to 1024 block size, I thought changing it to 512 would ruin my partitions but it didn't happen :)

Had SFS on this hdd before, the speed increase when opening a drawer is very noticeable with PFS3
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Offline Framiga

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 10:26:37 AM »
Quote from: orange;557418
iirc, someone here before said that pfs3 ignores block size and always uses 512bytes?


correct.
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Offline Framiga

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 10:29:44 AM »
Quote from: AMIGAZ;557730
Actually had it set to 1024 block size, I thought changing it to 512 would ruin my partitions but it didn't happen :)

Had SFS on this hdd before, the speed increase when opening a drawer is very noticeable with PFS3


check with Icon Information (or any other tool) and you will see that is using 512 bytes even if you set 1024 in HDToolbox (or what you have used for partitioning)
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Offline brownb2

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 10:15:29 AM »
Quote from: Piru;557374
512 bytes

Surely this really depends on the modal average file size of files under say 8KB and the size the device is optimised for rather than a stock answer?

On NTFS it is 4KB (iirc) but that is wasteful for files smaller than that amount as they'd be padded, but that doesn't matter so much now with large HD capacities? Most modern hard disks I would think would also be optimized for 4K block transfers based on expected NTFS usage and CF would probably be FAT16 (i.e. camera) optimized - have a look at this table: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/140365

Yes these are MS standards but I suspect most modern hardware developers would at least look at these during performance considerations.

We need someone to do an analysis of the average modern Workbench distribution file size and average block file transfer performance from a collection of CFs or hard disks and base it on that for the category of devices respectively... Processor  IO performance might be another bottleneck to consider...

[EDIT] Also: "However, a larger cluster size reduces bookkeeping overhead and fragmentation, which may improve reading and writing speed overall. Typical cluster sizes range from 1 sector (512 B) to 128 sectors (64 KiB)." [/EDIT]
[EDIT2] I'm referring to FS in general - I'm using FFS-DC[/EDIT2]
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 10:25:16 AM by brownb2 »
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Offline Piru

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 10:40:37 AM »
Quote from: brownb2;580783
Surely this really depends on the modal average file size of files under say 8KB and the size the device is optimised for rather than a stock answer?
No, it doesn't.

Note: I answered the question.
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Offline matthey

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 10:43:20 AM »
Quote from: AMIGAZ;557730

Had SFS on this hdd before, the speed increase when opening a drawer is very noticeable with PFS3


PFS3 (68060 version) is about 50% faster on average than SFS on my CSMK3 UltraSCSI. Deleting is several times faster. The SFS delete slowness bug, the guru on cold boots with a really fast Ultra SCSI drive bug, and the corrupted partition bugs seem to have disappeared.
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Offline brownb2

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 11:18:33 AM »
Quote from: Piru;580786
No, it doesn't.

Note: I answered the question.

I think you might have missed my second edit - I was referring to file systems in general (in the context Amiga file systems).

IIRC the Amiga has PIO IDE rather than DMA so you'd expect performance benefits if the block size is optimal for clock cycles, i.e. the minimum number of cycles required to request across the IDE bus and CRC the block of a given size would be optimal. Having a faster CPU I expect would improve this as it would allow more CPU cycles to be dedicated to IO, assuming a modern drive with fast IO.

Later 68K processors (IMHO) benefit IO from having a data cache (i.e. not the 68000/68020). 68030's data cache is 256B, 4K for '040 and 8K for '060 so IMHO an 040 upwards using PIO and a decent FS should (assuming not a lot of small files) see benefits of using a 1-4K block size.

Does this sound right (I'm not a hardware engineer)?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 11:24:13 AM by brownb2 »
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Offline wawrzon

Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2010, 11:27:09 AM »
where do you guys get psf3 all the sudden, have i missed smth? has it been released already?
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Offline Golem!dk

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Re: PFS3 block size
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2010, 11:33:53 AM »
It would have been released with Amiga Future magazine by now I guess, but PFS3 is kinda old by now, so some of us have actually been using it for several years.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 11:37:24 AM by Golem!dk »
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