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Old 08-19-2009, 08:34 AM   #1
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Default The future of Amiga.org ...?

Good morning guys,

A few years ago on April Fool's Day, I played a prank where I "sold Amiga.org to Spanish lesbians".

It was pretty funny back then, and everyone was both laughing and furious at me for weeks. Some even abandoned the site over it, but then again, there are always rats looking to jump ship.

For the last few years, it's been a running joke amongst friends that I should truly sell the site to real spanish lesbians and move on. As always, there's a bit of truth in every joke.

The simple fact is that while I started out being one of the devout fanboys when the community was 200,000 strong, and I loved everything Amiga, I haven't felt that way in many years. In truth, I don't feel that way about ANY computer platform any more.

The result is that running the site itself -- while rewarding -- has been an increasing struggle for me, since I don't use or follow all the drama as closely as I once did. Kind of like a soap opera. I grew up addicted, but over the years too many actors and storylines have changed to keep my interest.

So what does this mean?

Effectively, it means that I'm beginning an active search for someone both able, and interested in buying, then taking over the site.

It could be one person, or a group of partners, but after 15 years of solid dedication, in order to "buy me out", the cost is $10,000 USD.

I know most of the remaining fanboys will start screaming about how I don't have the right to sell the site, or to even expect money for my blood, sweat, and tears, but that 10k is 1/2 of what it's worth, and 1/2 of what I was asking just 5 years ago. It's also one hell of a low price for 15 YEARS of my life.

I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.

If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.

It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Wayne: i truly respect and understand each and every single sentence you wrote.
I may or may not agree in some points with you, but, since you are the "Commander of the ship", you have the right to say what you have just expressed, and i consider that you have done for the Amiga community much, much more than a lot would even dream of.

Pity, sadly to read this. Its been one of the most shocking news i have read in a while relating Amigaland, believe me.

The site without you, is not simple the same. Believe me on that.

And also, believe that if i had that money, i would be the first to jump on the ship and continue your legacy

Unfortunately, im far, far away of having that amount, but i consider it "symbolic", for all what you have achieved all over this years with the site, the biggest Amiga-reference site on the net. Period.

Somebody can agree, somebody can disagree with me and with you, but i, for one, respect 100% your decition. (Or desition? excuse my sometimes horrible english)

But, maybe some of the most "famous" A.org users can make a collect to raise the funds?

Maybe we can even set up a PayPal account to achieve that amount?

I dont know, i know someone will just shout out saying that "you should donate the site to the community" and all that bla bla bla....but, again, i respect and im honoured to have been a member here for so long, and i would love to do anything that is at my hands to keep the site here!!!

The site belong to all of us (if you know what i mean), so maybe we can make a little effort, everyone, to raise up those 10.000 dollars Wayne is asking, and i guess nobody can reproach anything to Wayne at this very moment...

Wayne, even tough we only had a few talks over mails, i truly respect you and what you have done (by far, much more than, for example, A.Inc themselves), and i truly wish you ALL the best in anything you go for the future

I really hope someday you can come back here, this will always be "your home", and of course, if you lost interest in ANY machines...well, it can happen...it depends on your moods and lot of other factors...

In fact, myself, im having a terrible time, both in health and in finantial situation, thats keeping me away of almost anything, but one of the few things that "keep me alive and kicking" is Amigaland

Saying all this..Wayne, all the best, and people, come on, its time to behave as a truly united community once again, and do the best to keep the site up and running!!!!

Oh, BTW, this site its been almost my home in the net for many years as well...

Peace

Sebastian
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Time for either the community to:

1. Club together and buy Amiga.org

2. Setup an alternative

3. Let Spanish lesbians take over...

Number 3 gets my vote.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:56 AM   #4
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Sebastian,

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your health issues, but truly appreciate your message of support.

It's not that I'm turning off the light and walking away from the site. I just think there are a few people in this community who could do a far better job than I do at supporting the site and community itself.

15 years ago when I had an intern job and 6 hours a day to play on the site, I kept up with everything. Now I barely have time to keep up with my own life.

Wayne
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyyeb View Post
Number 3 gets my vote.
Helpful as always I see
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

buh... I live here... *violin*
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

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buh... I live here... *violin*
You're more than welcome to stay. We have a special room reserved just for you. The rent however might fluctuate with the new landlord..

Wayne
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Helpful as always I see
There should have been a after my original message

Speaking from the forum user perspective... To be honest there are lots of Amiga news/forum sites out there for people to choose from. Most people frequent most if not all of them... I hope someone with the desire to continue running 'as-is' takes over but in the same breath I personally wont miss it much if it has to go.

Some people who have been here the whole 15 years or so will differ their opinion... and if they care so much about an Internet site, then they should be the ones looking to buy it.

I don't blame you for selling up, Wayne. If I had an asset that I thought was worth $10k and didn't want it any more... selling it would be my number 1 choice. Good luck in whatever you do in the future... your dedication to this site has been admirable.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Since everyone is so well versed at reading between the lines, let me be very specific about a few points...

1) I am *not* talking about closing down Amiga.org any time in the foreseeable future. The site should continue on without interruption.

2) I just don't feel that I'm the best equipped person to run it to help the community any more.

3) I'm looking for someone who's willing to step up, invest a little bit (about the price of 3 decked out toaster systems) to be able to step in and make this a better place and keep the community going the way this site deserves.

4) I have no intention of giving away 15 years worth of work for free. Whether or not you agree with that statement is irrelevant, but I guarantee each of you that if you REALLY thought about it honestly, NONE of you would invest 15 years into ANY project to give it away for free.

5) The mission of this site is, and always has been to promote the community first, and the computer a distant second. As such, YOU, the community make up what happens here and what direction we go in as a site.

5.b) That being said, the operation, ownership of the site and it's related copyrights and content is, and always has been owned by me, or by way of prior commitment, the North Alabama Society of Amiga Users (NASAU) which disbanded circa 2000.

6) I'm simply ready for a new part of my life to begin, and hope each of you understand what I'm trying to say, and to accomplish with this post. It's more than just money, more than selling the site. It's about me trying to figure out what makes me happy and move in that direction.

Unfortunately -- due to several factors including my longstanding history with both AI and Genesi -- I'm just at a point where I'm finding it difficult to fein interest any more, and that's not what this site, or this community needs.

Wayne
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Chris,

Your attitude, while understandable (and unfortunately all too common), isn't very helpful to this situation. Yes, if I closed the site today, people would simply wander off to other sites. Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes, but I think you truly miss the point.

There may be other sites, but there will never be another Amiga.org.

Wayne
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Only being an active member here for a while and moreso recently - heck I even fed the Kitty I really enjoy my multiple daily visits here and would be very sad to see it go, so I hope it doesn't if Wayne can't get the asking price.

Amiga is absolutely not Amiga Inc, or Commodore (with their £3000+ uber PC's). Amiga is now us. It's the active community with a badge on it. We each own a part of that name now as we're the only ones who care any more.

If I can do anything to help raise the funds Wayne needs I will but won't be able to swing $10k past the wife. It's bad enough getting the odd piece of kit in here these days. I am however willing to contribute.

Proposition

- Someone takes ownership of pledges of financial buy in from the community (I would be able to pledge $200 for instance)
- We compile all the pledges to get a value which Wayne may or may not accept (if it doesn't sell on eBay)
- If Wayne accepts then each pledge pay's Wayne their pledge money
- Pledgers go into a pot and vote themselves in to run the site
- Voting is opened to the whole community and whomever gets the most votes - runs the site but doesn't own it per se

I could probably get a contract drawn up that would show percentages of site owned by each of us so that if it was ever sold on - we would get a share of the sale.

What do you all think?

John
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Quote:
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Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes ... *snip*
Had that done to me in the past with a tutorial of mine on here Wayne and it's not pleasent ... all they had to do was ask instead of steal.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Quote:
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Chris,

Your attitude, while understandable (and unfortunately all too common), isn't very helpful to this situation. Yes, if I closed the site today, people would simply wander off to other sites. Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes, but I think you truly miss the point.

There may be other sites, but there will never be another Amiga.org.

Wayne
True. Here is my ideal world for you (remember it is only my opinion expressed on this public forum): You sell amiga.org to a dedicated forum user(s) with the same values as you and things continue as they are. That way everyone gets what they want.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

I just had to chime in with my two cents on this topic:

While I haven't been an active member of the Amiga community for very long (I only recently began restoring / upgrading an A2000), I feel obligated to at least say that of all the retro-computing sites I frequent (lots!), this is by far one of the friendliest, most helpful, and most fun. I've asked every dumb newbie question possible over the past month or so, and I've been met with an astonishing level of cordial, polite and (most importantly) helpful responses, with nary a discouraging word to be found.

I've been up to my neck in the vintage Apple II / Macintosh hobby for over a decade, and it's been a blast diving into the Commodore scene and finding the same level of enthusiasm and helpfulness I've grown accustomed to in the Apple scene.

While the future of Amiga.org might be a bit hazy right now, I can't help but feel confident that if the majority of us board members keep the spirit of fun and sharing strong, the future can only get brighter for this group.

I'm looking forward to seeing what we can create as Amiga.org transitions into whatever lies ahead!

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Old 08-19-2009, 12:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Want to hear the oppinion of a newcomer to the site? Well here it is:

I don“t think that selling the site will work out. I don“t think anyone who is ready to invest 10k will want to keep Amiga.org the way it is now. Which is sad of course. I think the site is great!

Just a thought: maybe the 15 years you "invested" were really invested in something inside yourself, which nobody could possibly buy. This isn“t saying you should ask for less.

All the best for your auction. And thanks for providing this cool blog-service. I have yet to find anything like it. I was thinking about a subscription, but I will put this idea on hold for now.
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

What if nobody is interested and the ebay auction doesn't cough up more than say a couple of thousand?

-edit-
Maybe the Mozilla bounty can be put to something useful now =).
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

*Somebody* has to maintain this site. Can't stress enough how important we have a Stateside based Amiga site and forums. I've met LOTS of great folks here (in person and online) where deals and get-togethers have actually gone through. News just keeps getting sadder and sadder these days :-(
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Some just-because stats. Just because someone was interested;
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

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What if nobody is interested and the ebay auction doesn't cough up more than say a couple of thousand?

-edit-
Maybe the Mozilla bounty can be put to something useful now =).
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to extort money from anyone here. I'm just stating my case and seeing if there's anyone interested. It would be sad if there's not, as that would indicate to me that I've wasted a whole lot of time trying to support a community that doesn't believe it's worth it, but no one can predict what might happen in the foreseeable future.

My hope is to find someone who's interested in continuing what is, not turning it into something else, but the simple fact is that someone who actually cares about the Amiga would be a better candidate than I to continue supporting the community. I care about the people here, and the friendships, but not the computer (past or future).

My time of caring about computers in general is long gone. I went Mac 3+ years ago and haven't even touched a Windows machine since then (when I can help it).

Between Amiga Inc getting nowhere, and Genesi screwing me over, I've just had enough.

Now, if you want me to take the site and turn it into a social networking site with the Amiga as a sub-culture, I could do that, but again, where's the payoff in all that effort for me? When I put up vBulletin, I was actually revitalized for a while and once again felt like part of things, but... Apparently it's a case of running out of new modules and things to try to keep my mind occupied and interested.

In short, I find myself becoming sorely disinterested in the virtual world of the Web and wanting to get back to the real world that is all around me.

In DIRECT answer to your question, if no one is interested, and a standing "until it sells" auction never meets the reserve, the site WOULD **** EVENTUALLY **** close down some day. NOT today, not tomorrow, next week, or next month, but no one can run a single Web site forever and not lose some measure of interest.

Wayne
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?

Sad news Wayne, but I saw this coming from many of your posts over the last couple of years.

Thanks for all you have done and I hope after you complete the sale you will drop by from time to time to let us know what you are up to. Perhaps I'll travel to your part of the country some day and go for a motorcycle ride with you if I still have my bike at that time.

I don't have much monetary resources, but would be willing to join a group of members to help purchase and run the site.
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