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Old 02-06-2009, 07:20 AM   #1
jiffydos
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Default Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Watching ebay for the last few months and seeing 10+ year old PPC cards selling for $500+ makes me wonder why no one, especially Jens, seems to even be talking about making a new one. Would the research and/or parts be that expensive that it would not make up for the money it could make?

I would spend $500 or even $750 on something brand new and warranted, but an old, slow 603e... not so much.

I would think it would be doable for someone to build a new PPC card, maybe based on the Sam440 or Efika processors/projects.

Any idea why not?
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Maybe because you have new boards which work with recent version of Amiga OS (4.1).

PPC accelerators for classic work with version 4.0, design and production would be sky high overpriced and it would work on 20 years old MOBOs....

What do you think?

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Old 02-06-2009, 07:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

I think if such a huge chunk of the work has already been done to create these projects, it would make sense to give the "classic" world the chance too. I would spend $500/$600 on an "efika" accelerator for my A4000 before I'd spend that just on the standalone board. That way, I could run 68K code OR OS4.x PPC code.

I'd envision something the the old Sonnet Quad-Doubler where the original 68040 chip from the A4000 is inserted into the new accelerator to give the dual CPU experience similar to Blizzard cards.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Expensive to be created ...

On the other hand new boards are on the market now running 4.1. Your question would be more into the point if there was still no new hardware available.

But times have changed to the better -having in mind the standards of our almost dead platform-.

Still the point about giving classic a new chance is good and I am in it but do you think the people that would buy a new PPC accelerator would be enough to cover the cost of a new massive production of those cards?

Do not think so...

Even the new hardware has low specs and it is expensive to buy. But it is fun cause it is Amiga -or Amiga oriented- after all.

No one even dares to deliver a board with high specs based on today’s standards, letting it still be PPC -which is another dead technology but still rocks in Amiga world and it is ok for me and for all of us in the community-. I would love a PPC system in 2Ghz with 4GB RAM, lots of USB slots, gigabit ethernet support, blue ray etc.. and all those under the flag of AmigaOS / MorphOS.... But yeap it is still a dream...

Pegasos is the faster system so far, capable to run both OSes.

You would better wake up @ Genesi and release a super-duper-high-speed-high-end model.

We need more power.....

And MorphOS 3 everywhere




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Old 02-06-2009, 08:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

@JiffyDOS

The problem with high-end accelerator cards are that you have to wonder after a while, whether you are plugging a card into an old computer or if you are plugging an old computer onto a new one.

The old bus controllers on the classics can't handle the bandwidth needed to use the more modern PPC chips that the SAM and the like have built in.

Even the latest Efika boards will not have PowerPC chips on them but instead will have ARM processors.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

The problem is quantity, the Amiga market is so small and the development costs so high that it just doesn't pay.

Look at SAM, a glorified mobile phone without the phone. You sell a couple thousand and that's it. Al your costs have to be recouped in those couple thousand sales, so the price is five to ten times what it should be.

It's a zero sum game, at best. You make enough money to exist and that's it. And don't make a mistake or you've lost a lot of money.

There is one clear solution, take AmigaDOS to X86 where ther's plent of cheap equipmwnt. I'd love to have an AmigaOS 4 EEEEEEEEEE pc. A few hundred dollars, neat amd compact. And AmigaOS 4 would fly in such an environment. A full machine at half the cost of a turn of the century SAM board alone.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Ask Elbox, and find out!
They preparing accelerators 8 years now 9!
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

I would be happy to see a new Amiga 3000/4000 68040 processor board with modern memory slots. It would bring my A4000 back to life whose A3640 broke down a few years ago.
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Yeah, a new 68k accelerator would be nice. But I don't really see the point of a power pc. There are so few demos and softwares that support it anyway, and now we have fast new PPC only boards for that stuff.
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Let's say we could get the original 4000 board design (it apparently disappeared last century), this would save us design costs. This is a what, 4 layer board, how much would it cost to manufacture say 500 or 1000 of them? How much for the chips? Can we even get new parts nowadays?

Running further roughshod over copyright, we could clone the ROMs. So now we have a machine that is AI's Lawyer's wet dream. Case, power supply. We're probably above the cost of used and it's still pre-turn of the century technology.

Now we still need to clone a PPC board...

Does the vapourware natami have any plans for a ppc board?
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Quote:
persia wrote:
Let's say we could get the original 4000 board design (it apparently disappeared last century), this would save us design costs. This is a what, 4 layer board, how much would it cost to manufacture say 500 or 1000 of them? How much for the chips? Can we even get new parts nowadays?
The Board is not RoHS... so actually we've already fallen at the first hurdle...

Quote:
Running further roughshod over copyright, we could clone the ROMs. So now we have a machine that is AI's Lawyer's wet dream. Case, power supply. We're probably above the cost of used and it's still pre-turn of the century technology.

Now we still need to clone a PPC board...

Does the vapourware natami have any plans for a ppc board?
Actually I believe it does, and a lunar landing module... though I think that comes after the planned cure-for-cancer feature!
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

We should do something simular to Apple.. (using an open source OS under the hood, proprietary GUI the user sees; hybrid approach)

Take Linux to the level we want it to be...

Linux could be the base on a modern hardware...

Then have an proprietary AmigaOS GUI layer that competes with Mac OS X (it already is very simular anyway..)..

Scrap AmigaDOS for Linux...

It's the only thing that makes sense to me to, if we want any chance of bringing Amiga to the modern world and actually possibly bringing it mainstream.. Linux already has leaps and bounds more potential of beating Apple or Microsoft, but it lacks the polished look and feel of the other 2. If someone could come out with a Linux distro that is as cool as Mac OS X, then we have something exciting and new everyone would want to be a part of...

But.. I'm coming down from the Magic Mushroom high now and facing reality.. I've given up on Commodore and Amiga ages ago... I now am a "Mac fanboy"... lol They provide the computer I want NOW..

Anymore I just use emu's for reliving the glory days.. A stock 64, a stock A500 are fine for me anymore.. If we can ever be realistic and agree enough to make Amiga return then yay... Otherwise enjoy your Retro computing and screw this wasted effort..

Thanks,

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Old 02-06-2009, 12:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Sorry for my ignorance but what happened to the original PPC board designs from the various vendors.

Couldn't someone re-manufacture original Phase5 boards etc and pay the patent /copyright holder a royalty???

Surely the parts are still out there and as development cost wouldn't be required, just parts and manufacturing, couldn't original PPC boards for A1200/A4000 be re-produced at reasonable cost???

I'm sure that there are loads of people happy to run OS3.9 with a desktop A1200 PPC board.....I would!...or just an '060' board?
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

fatboy:

Do you have any idea what it costs to produce a multi-layer/SMT board with parts that aren't readily available?

As I said.. this is all wasted effort.. So OS4 and OS4.1 have become realized.. For what? What am I going to do on this platform? run a few programs that are inferior to their Mac, Windows, and Linux counterparts? I understand the Will... but unless the current owners of Amiga have some real intellegence in today's marketplace, it's all doomed...

BTW. You realize that Amiga is the Spanish word for Girlfriend... I don't see this name even marketable in the modern world... People would question why we are calling our computers a Girlfriend.. Don't we want real Girlfriends?

Commodore is the better name...

Thanks,

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Old 02-06-2009, 01:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why no NEW PPC accelerators?

Surely most of the parts are still fairly standard(SMT components).

With the global economy being so bad, I'm sure a lot of the large Chinese manufacturing plants will be crying out for ANY sort of orders?

is a £249-£299 card not possible?

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