amiga.org
     
iconAll times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:52 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.

Amiga.org Amiga computer related discussion Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion This forum is dedicated to the discussion and resolution of issues related to Classic and Next Generation Amiga hardware. Got a problem with a piece of hardware? Click to speak.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-31-2008, 12:01 PM   #61
Darrin
Lifetime Member
Points: 20,321, Level: 89 Points: 20,321, Level: 89 Points: 20,321, Level: 89
Activity: 76% Activity: 76% Activity: 76%
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Posts: 4,372
Send a message via AIM to Darrin Send a message via Yahoo to Darrin
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Quote:
yaqube wrote:
But unfortunately the original Minimig board design imposes a limitation on the maximum communication speed with an SD/MMC card. To overcome this problem you need to short two pads of two resistors (very simple soldering task). Otherwise the emulated hard disk transfer speed is limited to ca 200 KB/s.
Does that mean that with the ARM and the pad shorted you could implement a "turbo floppy mode" where the read/write speed to the ADF images is accelerated?
Darrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2008, 12:06 PM   #62
Everblue
Technoid
Points: 13,617, Level: 75 Points: 13,617, Level: 75 Points: 13,617, Level: 75
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
Everblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Malta, EU
Posts: 490
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Probably that would be a problem to some games? Just a very wild guess.
Everblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2008, 12:17 PM   #63
Darrin
Lifetime Member
Points: 20,321, Level: 89 Points: 20,321, Level: 89 Points: 20,321, Level: 89
Activity: 76% Activity: 76% Activity: 76%
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Posts: 4,372
Send a message via AIM to Darrin Send a message via Yahoo to Darrin
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Quote:
Everblue wrote:
Probably that would be a problem to some games? Just a very wild guess.
Probably. It would have to be optional as in WinUAE.
Darrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2008, 12:36 PM   #64
yaqube
Technoid
Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 197
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Quote:
Darrin wrote:
Quote:
yaqube wrote:
But unfortunately the original Minimig board design imposes a limitation on the maximum communication speed with an SD/MMC card. To overcome this problem you need to short two pads of two resistors (very simple soldering task). Otherwise the emulated hard disk transfer speed is limited to ca 200 KB/s.
Does that mean that with the ARM and the pad shorted you could implement a "turbo floppy mode" where the read/write speed to the ADF images is accelerated?
Nope. The "turbo floppy mode" doesn't need the ARM board at all. But with the ARM the turbo mode is faster. Now I can't tell how fast the floppy turbo mode is when using the PIC but with the ARM basic transfer speed is ca 30 KB/s and in turbo mode ca 60 KB/s. No need to short the pads but it's advised since the overall system speed is higher.
yaqube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 12:45 AM   #65
countzero
Defender of the Faith
Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
countzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,937
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

yaqube, there's a swedish guy here which makes Mini-Itx minimig boards. Is it possible to get rid of the PIC in the design and put ARM directly ? I mean it should definitely be possible, but what should he keep in mind while making the changes ?

this is the guy : illuwatar
project page

illuwatar, what are your thoughts on this ?
__________________
I believe in mt. Fuji
countzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 06:32 PM   #66
denli
Hobbyist
Points: 4,828, Level: 44 Points: 4,828, Level: 44 Points: 4,828, Level: 44
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 67
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

As what I can tell from previous threads Illuwatar is keeping his design 100% compatible with Dennis v1.1 design. Thus you can use both the original PIC or the ARM addition.
denli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 02:58 AM   #67
mikej
Cult Member
Points: 8,612, Level: 62 Points: 8,612, Level: 62 Points: 8,612, Level: 62
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 744
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Yaqube, could you clarify which pads needs to be shorted and why?

"But unfortunately the original Minimig board design imposes a limitation on the maximum communication speed with an SD/MMC card. To overcome this problem you need to short two pads of two resistors (very simple soldering task). Otherwise the emulated hard disk transfer speed is limited to ca 200 KB/s."

I would like to make sure the FpgaArcade dev board I have developed can run at the faster speed. It uses an AVR rather than a PIC and dual SPI controllers so I can suck a block fro the SD card while sending the last one to the FPGA. It won't help if I am limited to 200KB however..

Thanks,
Mike.
mikej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 04:00 AM   #68
boing4000
Technoid
Points: 4,374, Level: 42 Points: 4,374, Level: 42 Points: 4,374, Level: 42
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 222
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Possible that SPI_CLK (over R50, R51 = SD > CLOCK) is also set to a higher frequence...? But this is just a simple rectangle pulse signal without any data spread.
Currently this signal is clocked at aproc. 1.2MHz that is much faster then the DIN/DOUT data signal flow.

Last edited by boing4000; 09-06-2009 at 11:50 AM..
boing4000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 04:32 AM   #69
yaqube
Technoid
Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 197
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Quote:
mikej wrote:
Yaqube, could you clarify which pads needs to be shorted and why?
Dennis had problems with his MMC card because it was still active even when its _CS line was held high. So he gated the MMC clock line with very simple solution: he put the R51 (1K) in series with the R50 (270R) and shorted the connection between them to VCC (with the PIC RA0 pin) whenever the MMC card was inactive.

The drawback of this solution is that there is a huge impedance between the source of the clock (the PIC) and the MMC card effectively limiting rising/falling edge speed of the CLK signal. I have modified the program not to disable the MMC clock and it works with all mine MMC and SD cards (I have only tested about ten different types). Bypassing these two resistors allows to run an SD card with 24 MHz clock. This solution isn't perfect but relatively simple.

The best solution would be to put a series source-terminating resistor to match the PCB trace impedance (60-90 Ohm) and have proper clock routing topology.
yaqube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 05:29 AM   #70
mikej
Cult Member
Points: 8,612, Level: 62 Points: 8,612, Level: 62 Points: 8,612, Level: 62
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 744
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Great, thanks for the info. I remember talking to Dennis about this a while back actually. That was the other reason I went for a dedicated SPI connection to the SD card with a source terminated clock so I shouldn't have this problem. The (slightly out of date) schematics are up on line if you want to have a look.

I remember another issue somebody mentioned that if you were doing a mode change from MMC to SD then you needed to reboot the SD card. This would require a FET on the power supply to the SD card which I would rather not add. Anybody come across a need for this?

Cheers,
Mike.




mikej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 05:41 AM   #71
mikej
Cult Member
Points: 8,612, Level: 62 Points: 8,612, Level: 62 Points: 8,612, Level: 62
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 744
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

ah, I found the power cycling issue, it was from my mate Arnim from Opencores. If you switch the card from SD mode to SPI mode then you can only switch back to SD/MMC mode by power cycling the card. This is not an issue for us as both the FPGA and the boot controller both talk SPI.

/Mike
mikej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:30 AM   #72
Sig999
Technoid
Points: 2,954, Level: 33 Points: 2,954, Level: 33 Points: 2,954, Level: 33
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 153
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

This is great news! I was hoping things would go in this direction, it could probably replace my aging 2000. As much as I thought the project was very cool, for me playing games was only half the fun of my old system - if I could fire up devpac and a couple of other goodies and play I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Hopefully this bit 'o kit will eventually be incorporated into a buyable product - my soldering skills are OK.. but I wouldn't trust them enough for the ram soldering.

I realise that space on the board is limited - but I was thinking wouldn't it be possible to put some kind of socketed ram board off the main (a la kickstart switchers)?

eh, what do I know? I'm a software guy :P
Sig999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 04:45 AM   #73
wolfchild
Too much caffeine
Points: 3,212, Level: 35 Points: 3,212, Level: 35 Points: 3,212, Level: 35
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Malta
Posts: 74
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

I hope this is not too late for inclusion in the LPC2388 version...

Since this ARM controller has a dedicated RTC module on chip, I'd like to suggest placing a CR2032 lithium battery with holder on the piggyback module/new PCB. This is the type used on PC motherboards and generally known to be leak free.

I don't know what it involves in terms of software/FPGA coding, but it would be a nice touch having files with correct time stamps. Always if the Amiga OS is Y2k compliant, anyway.

Edwin
wolfchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 05:57 AM   #74
yaqube
Technoid
Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 197
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

The LPC2388 is planned to be used in the next generation of Minimig. The RTC with battery back-up is on the list.

The PIC replacement version is based on the AT91SAM7S256 and has no RTC. But can be used in any Minimig V1.1 board (designed by Dennis).

I have talked to Peter about a possibility of including the ARM controller on the Minimig-ITX board. It's seems to be feasible.
yaqube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 06:41 AM   #75
TheDaddy
Cult Member
Points: 12,581, Level: 73 Points: 12,581, Level: 73 Points: 12,581, Level: 73
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
Japanese Baseball Champion, Curveball Champion, Breakout Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 975
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

@Jakub,

Don't forget to inform me when the next generation Minimig is ready, I would love to make a case for it and continue the family tree :-)
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 07:19 AM   #76
yaqube
Technoid
Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 197
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

@Loriano

I will talk to you before the final board design will be completed. We should design it in an enclosure-friendly way.
yaqube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 07:33 AM   #77
TheDaddy
Cult Member
Points: 12,581, Level: 73 Points: 12,581, Level: 73 Points: 12,581, Level: 73
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
Japanese Baseball Champion, Curveball Champion, Breakout Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 975
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

@yaqube

>>I will talk to you before the final board design will be completed. We should design it in an enclosure-friendly way.

That sounds promising, I can't wait to start working on the next gen Minimig ;-)
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 04:23 PM   #78
Schoenfeld
Technoid
Points: 5,829, Level: 49 Points: 5,829, Level: 49 Points: 5,829, Level: 49
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 175
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

What exactly is the limiting speed factor of the hardfile implementation? We just finished an internal version of the Minimig core for the C-One with harddrive support, working on a real harddrive (in my case, on a DeLock IDE flash module). Without optimization, our performance is 545k per second (see pictures on www.c64upgra.de/c-one ) - a good 20% faster than what's shown in the Youtube video.

There might be room for improvement as we speed up the CPU, but I don't expect much more, as the CPU is just a plain, 68000, sharing the bus with the chipset and another 68000 CPU.

Minimig on the C-One now has 11 megs of ram and a harddrive. An RTC might be an idea now :-)

Jens
Schoenfeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 05:34 PM   #79
Darrin
Lifetime Member
Points: 20,321, Level: 89 Points: 20,321, Level: 89 Points: 20,321, Level: 89
Activity: 76% Activity: 76% Activity: 76%
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Posts: 4,372
Send a message via AIM to Darrin Send a message via Yahoo to Darrin
Default Re: Minimig v1.1 ARM Hardfile Demonstration

Quote:
Schoenfeld wrote:
What exactly is the limiting speed factor of the hardfile implementation? We just finished an internal version of the Minimig core for the C-One with harddrive support, working on a real harddrive (in my case, on a DeLock IDE flash module). Without optimization, our performance is 545k per second (see pictures on www.c64upgra.de/c-one ) - a good 20% faster than what's shown in the Youtube video.

There might be room for improvement as we speed up the CPU, but I don't expect much more, as the CPU is just a plain, 68000, sharing the bus with the chipset and another 68000 CPU.

Minimig on the C-One now has 11 megs of ram and a harddrive. An RTC might be an idea now :-)

Jens
Bloody hell! That's good news! I certainly don't mind using one of my spare 2.5" IDE hard drives on my C-One if it works! Only a couple more days until I get home and then I can finally mount that C-One in a case and start testing it. :-)

RTC would be nice, but I'll tell you want would really get me going... being able to access those clockports. If you could manage that then the C-One Minimig could have a Subway USB device attached.

RTG via a PCI graphics card would be the ultimate wet dream. :-)

Are you still beta-testing that core with hard drive support or has it been released?

Cheers,

Darrin

Edit: I just found your post on Yahoo quoted on Minimig.net and I'll be happy to wait for your CF support like you suggest, rather than risk my C-One board to any reflashing or soldering.
Darrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
hardfile , demonstration , v11 , minimig , arm

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Red Guru on format RDB SFS Hardfile. Claw22000 Amiga Software Issues and Discussion 9 03-19-2009 02:40 AM
Creating RDB Hardfile in UAE sdyates Amiga Software Issues and Discussion 2 09-15-2007 07:09 AM
Revolution: A Demonstration of the Video Toaster weirdami Amiga Marketplace 0 04-16-2007 04:24 AM
Clone-A demonstration in Aachen CD32Freak General chat about Amiga topics 4 03-31-2007 06:18 PM
How to Extend Hardfile? Liber777 Amiga Emulation 9 11-28-2006 09:09 AM