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Author Topic: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable  (Read 3963 times)

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Offline save2600Topic starter

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Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« on: October 20, 2008, 09:49:17 PM »
Anyone here try hacking a monitor cable to provide component video out yet on an A2000? Seems doable with the RGB nature of component video. Not sure how the sync lines would work - if they would need a circuit such as a sync separator or not. I know my Hitachi plasma set does not want to deal with PAL signals, but I have a true multi-region front projector (Mitsubishi) that properly displays any goofy signal (15khz+) I've thrown at it...


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Offline tone007

Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 10:30:57 PM »
I tried it once using some pinouts I found online, it didn't work.

Not to say I did it correctly or anything.
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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 10:45:40 PM »
You cannot "hack a cable" to make the Amiga produce component video. You need electronic hardware not present in Amiga to convert to a different colour space (YPbPr). These electronics are relatively expensive for what they are (and not that good quality) so you are going to pay through the nose for it. An RGB->Component converter will cost around $80-$90

IMHO the main options open to you are:

1) Try 15KHz Analog RGB in through the VGA socket. You might need a sync dongle (23-pin to 15-pin adapter).

2) If your TV/Projector doesn't support 15KHz via VGA then you could get a scandoubler such as the Indivision 1200. Amazing quality and workbench resolutions as high as 1024x768 but they are even more expensive than an RGB->Component converter at the $180 mark

3) If your TV/Projector doesn't have VGA then you could try S-Video? Slightly better than composite and pretty easy to get hold of for around the $20-30 mark for a NeoBitz adapter board

BTW: Amiga already provides both separate and combined syncs.
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Offline save2600Topic starter

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 10:58:55 PM »
alexh:

Damn fine question (and I bet it would work), but the reason I'd like to use a component cable is because I'd like to use a more reasonably sized monitor!  lol  Most LCD's and even some cheaper CRT TV's have component video in.  Already have the Indivision AGA card for my A1200, but would like to hook my A2000, which is in the same room as my 50" Plasma (no vga in) to play games, etc.  
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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 11:05:30 PM »
You could look out for an AMBER A2320, Araxon or Petsoff scandoublers. All big box equivalents of the Indivision 1200. They will be expensive though at the $180 mark.

You could still try the Sync Dongle... maybe it would work? Worth a go first as they are only $3-5

The $80 RGB to YPbPr adapter I am talking about is called the Cypress CSY-2100. I've never used one but they have reasonable reviews. Expensive though at £50 ($86). Won't solve your PAL problem either. There is another one called the APTUS1 but it is slightly more expensive.

P.S. I edited my post above at the same time you sent your reply :-)
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Offline save2600Topic starter

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 11:12:10 PM »
Thanks alexh for the tips and input. I used to have a Microway AGA card for my A2000 - but it did not handle PAL modes at all and I sold it. An Amiga and its accompanying display that can't get along with PAL, are little more than paper weights to me.


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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 11:19:27 PM »
The Microway AGA card supports PAL just fine. It was your monitor which did not support 50Hz horizontal refresh.

The RGB->Component adapters I mention above will not scan-rate convert so if your TV does not support 50Hz component they will be useless to you.

Your only real solution is a Cypress CM-345S at about $150 or a Cypress CM-397 at about $99

Both are expensive external scandoublers which will scan rate convert PAL 50Hz screens to 60Hz (at a sacrifice of smooth scrolling). Quality will not be great because they are external, certainly not as good as an Indivision 1200.

My personal solution to an Amiga under TV is an X-Box 1 with HD component cable running WinUAE-X in 720p :-)

Plus XBMC is a great networked HTPC.
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Offline save2600Topic starter

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 11:29:56 PM »
??

I'm currently using the Indivision AGA with my A1200 on the same monitor I was trying to use my A2000 and the Microway card with. Absolutely no problems displaying PAL images (games, Workbench) with this monitor (an older NEC Multisync). And I've played with ALL the settings (different refresh rates, regions, etc), trying to trip up this monitor). Even though I live in a 60 cycles per second country, I keep my 50hz PAL A1200 mobo in PAL mode at all times.

The Microway FF/SD AGA card *I* had, would chop off the bottom 1/3rd of the screen using PAL applications AND forced the computer to run faster when in PAL mode...


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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 11:46:01 PM »
Indivision 1200 has a built-in 50Hz -> 60Hz scan rate converter which is on by default but if you've played with ALL the settings (i.e. turned it off) and you still get a picture then your monitor must be able to do 50Hz horizontal scan rate. If your monitor has digital OSD which can report the current frequency I'd be interested to know if you really have run the Indivision at 50Hz with that monitor.

Chopping off the bottom 1/3rd of the screen and making it go faster are clear signs of the Amiga being switched into 60Hz NTSC mode.

I have never owned one but upto now I was pretty sure that the Microway AGA worked fine in 50Hz PAL mode as long as you had a compatible monitor. Perhaps not after all. Something for me to keep in mind for the future :-)
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Offline save2600Topic starter

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008, 11:58:42 PM »
'Always on'... I'm not looking at the setting right now, but I'm pretty sure I was able to turn that automatic 50/60hz feature 'off'. If not, AND in any event, I have exhausted my resources for a decent and affordable monitor/TV that can cope with PAL signals for use with my A2000. I have recently purchased and returned 2 brand new TV/computer monitors sold at Best Buy AND Wal-Mart (Philips & Magnavox - THE monitors one would think could cope with 50hz) that did not deal with PAL. Hence - almost everyone's problem here in the States that want to continue to use their "legacy" Amiga's to play games. Hell, may as well purchase a new bare bones 19" arcade monitor and splice or hack my way into large screen Amiga bliss  ;-)  

Barring that, what I'd really like is an Indivision AGA card for my A2000!   lol  

Such a great product... Kudos and a pint out to Jens!!

 -Frank

www.coinopdreams.com


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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 12:01:26 AM »
I always recommend looking out for second hand video editing multi-sync monitors. Or old second hand video wall monitors. They usually go upto 28" and have every connection known to man and support every resolution and scan rate too!

Ok so you will probably have to get them serviced at the TV-Repair shop (are there any of these anymore) to get a CAPS-Kit upgrade and perhaps the LOPT looked at but you can get it done for pennies if you do it yourself.
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Offline save2600Topic starter

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 12:02:19 AM »
:

I have never owned one but upto now I was pretty sure that the Microway AGA worked fine in 50Hz PAL mode as long as you had a compatible monitor. Perhaps not after all. Something for me to keep in mind for the future.

writes:

According to Amiga-Hardware.com, there were two versions of that Microway card. An NTSC and a PAL version. Makes sense, considering the time and the "gulf" (yeah, right) between our countries.

I'll report back on the OSD of what that NEC monitor says about frequencies. But, yeah - I seem to remember that if I started out in 60hz and tried to play a game, it would run faster and be chopped off. When Degraded down to 50hz system, machine would run at appropriate speed, but using the Microway card, image would STILL be chopped off - rendering the game unplayable....



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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 12:04:14 AM »
Erm it doesnt exactly say that :-)

Quote
BBoAH.com wrote:
 It is not clear exactly what the difference is between the E version of the card, and the non-E version but it has been suggested that "E" might mean European, ie for PAL Amigas. It may also be some sort of revision.

I wrote a few of the BBoAH entries. (Not this one though) You should take them all with a pinch of salt. Especially the early ones which were taken from sources all over the web without any form of verification.

Makes sense though. You flicker fix a PAL screen you need more RAM than an NTSC one. If you had designed your scandoubler for NTSC screens only then it is possible that the frame buffer only supports 240 & 480 lines (hence chopping off the bottom of PAL 256 / 512 line screens)
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Offline Crom00

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 12:07:33 AM »
I have to side with AlexH here. Have tried to get component out of an amiga. AND VGA The closess I cam was the GVP G-lock but you need a montior that does RGB component. mine only did cvbs and ypbr or whatever its ca;;ed.

Also the indivision is awesome. I was skpetic at first but I attached too much ciritcism to the high price.

I'll tell you what... a WW2 US veteran told me...Germans make good stuff. Jens continues that tradition. Dollar for dollar you won't find a better solution. I like the bootscreen. Nice touch. The pal issues for us americans is a trainwreck the indivision solves this.

If we can get 24 bit screenmode out of this thing or somekind of graphitti like screenmodes then great... there's gotta be a way. It's got 16megs, and 24bit display hardware.

At this point I'm assembling the LAST amiga I will ever have.

Also the XBOX solution is great. They're $59 used at gamestop and you can softmod it, if you modchip your xbox you can use a $20 VGA cable too with a special bios.

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Offline alexh

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Re: Amiga RGB<>Component Video cable
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 12:10:17 AM »
Quote

Crom00 wrote:
If we can get 24 bit screenmode out of this thing or somekind of graphitti like screenmodes then great... there's gotta be a way. It's got 16megs, and 24bit display hardware.

And no READ access (?) and no way for it to directly access chip / fast RAM. All you can do is write into it and then only via provoking an AGA screen DMA.

HighGFX is as close as you'll get.

I would be curious as to it's side-band capabilities though.
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