Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Forums
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Differences between A4000D and A4000T  (Read 2353 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PhantomTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 631
    • Show only replies by Phantom
    • http://l9memorial.if-legends.org/html/home.html
Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« on: March 03, 2008, 01:11:03 PM »
I would like to know what is the difference between the motherboard of an A4000D and of an A4000T.

My first question is which motherboard fits in the Mirage Tower Pro for A4000 from Elbox.

My second question is there a difference between the kickstart ROMs? Because on every Amiga dealer I can see different ROMs for an A4000D and another for A4000T.

Do you know any other difference?
Logged
To Be A True Adventurer, You Ought To Play Real Text Adventures
 

Offline countzero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2005
  • Posts: 1938
    • Show only replies by countzero
    • http://blog.coze.org
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2008, 01:18:16 PM »
yes, the kickstart rom is different. A4000T has a SCSI controller, in addition to IDE, so it has both IDE and SCSI drivers inside the rom. To find space, workbench.library has been left out. An additional module called FindWB was added.
Logged
I believe in mt. Fuji
 

Offline Jope

Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 01:35:55 PM »
Quote

Phantom wrote:
I would like to know what is the difference between the motherboard of an A4000D and of an A4000T.

The shape, size, A4000 has a daughterboard for zorro slots, a4000t has them on the motherboard, a4000t has a scsi controller, etc etc.

Two totally different looking motherboards.

Quote
My first question is which motherboard fits in the Mirage Tower Pro for A4000 from Elbox.

A4000D.

Quote
Do you know any other difference?

Your question is a bit too generic, I suggest you look at the machines on www.amiga-hardware.com to see how totally different they are.
Logged
 

Offline mboehmer_e3b

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 312
    • Show only replies by mboehmer_e3b
    • http://www.e3b.de/usb/
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 01:40:41 PM »
Quote

Phantom wrote:
I would like to know what is the difference between the motherboard of an A4000D and of an A4000T.


If you want to operate several Zorro III DMA cards, then the A4000T is a bad choice. It usually has Buster 11, which allows only one (yes, one) busmaster on both Zorro III slots and the secondary master channel of Buster.

In A4000T, the secondary master channel is occupied by the onboard SCSI controller, rendering the Zorro III DMA capabilities unusable if any SCSI device is used on the internal SCSI controller.

With an A4000D, you can go back to Buster 9 and use several Zorro III DMA cards.
With an A4000T and Buster 11 you may disable the internal SCSI and still use only one Zorro III DMA card.

Michael
Logged
 

Offline Tahoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 971
    • Show only replies by Tahoe
    • http://www.amiga4ever.nl
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2008, 01:47:35 PM »
Quote

I would like to know what is the difference between the motherboard of an A4000D and of an A4000T.


Many, for instance it is standard AT form factor, has onboard SCSI, uses  seperate modules for audio/video/IO and Disk. It has AT-DIN size keyboard connector (instead of PS/2).

Quote

My first question is which motherboard fits in the Mirage Tower Pro for A4000 from Elbox.


4000D.
The A4000T being standard AT can fit any AT type case, including desktop cases.

Quote

My second question is there a difference between the kickstart ROMs? Because on every Amiga dealer I can see different ROMs for an A4000D and another for A4000T.


As mentioned by others, the ROMS are different because of the SCSI controller. Also the 3.1 install disks are different.
Logged
Greetings from Wilnis, The Netherlands
Now owning ALL Amiga models and most; if not all; flavours of them...My Amiga Museum
 

Offline PhantomTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 631
    • Show only replies by Phantom
    • http://l9memorial.if-legends.org/html/home.html
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2008, 01:57:37 PM »
Thanks for the fast replies. I really appreciate that. I think that an A4000D motherboard has a jumper about PAL/NTSC signal or not?
Logged
To Be A True Adventurer, You Ought To Play Real Text Adventures
 

Offline ChaosLord

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 2608
    • Show only replies by ChaosLord
    • http://totalchaoseng.dbv.pl/news.php
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2008, 02:27:49 PM »
Quote

Phantom wrote:
I think that an A4000D motherboard has a jumper about PAL/NTSC signal or not?


My A4000D did not have one.

My A3000D does have one.
Logged
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline PhantomTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 631
    • Show only replies by Phantom
    • http://l9memorial.if-legends.org/html/home.html
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2008, 02:37:15 PM »
Hm. So it depends of the revision of the motherboard or not?
Logged
To Be A True Adventurer, You Ought To Play Real Text Adventures
 

Offline davideo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 415
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by davideo
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2008, 02:40:13 PM »
Quote

Phantom wrote:
I think that an A4000D motherboard has a jumper about PAL/NTSC signal or not?


My 4000D has this jumper. About half way down on the left hand side of the mother board as you look at it from the front. It's clearly labelled on my board.

Dave G  8-)
Logged
 

Offline PhantomTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 631
    • Show only replies by Phantom
    • http://l9memorial.if-legends.org/html/home.html
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2008, 05:25:09 PM »
The Super Buster Chip is always soldered to the motherboard? How you can change it to SB-11 if it is soldered?
Logged
To Be A True Adventurer, You Ought To Play Real Text Adventures
 

Offline CLS2086

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2003
  • Posts: 1456
    • Show only replies by CLS2086
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008, 07:21:26 PM »
Just send it to amigacenter ...  :rtfm:
Logged
Keep the Faith !
VG 5000/A1000/500/500+/600/2000/CDTV/1200PPC-GREX/1200PPC -ATEO-BV/4060D/CD32/Aone/Peg 1/Peg2 G4/ various funny machines too  :-) http://www.mo5.com/collection/index.php?pseudo=CLS2086
I also repair drives of our old beloved Amiga
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2008, 02:01:24 AM »
Quote

mboehmer_e3b wrote:

If you want to operate several Zorro III DMA cards, then the A4000T is a bad choice. It usually has Buster 11, which allows only one (yes, one) busmaster on both Zorro III slots and the secondary master channel of Buster.

In A4000T, the secondary master channel is occupied by the onboard SCSI controller, rendering the Zorro III DMA capabilities unusable if any SCSI device is used on the internal SCSI controller.

With an A4000D, you can go back to Buster 9 and use several Zorro III DMA cards.
With an A4000T and Buster 11 you may disable the internal SCSI and still use only one Zorro III DMA card.


I have not ever heard this before. I don't doubt you as I believe you are certainly qualified to speak. You are saying the Buster 9 will provide better performance in the 4000T? Are the bugs in Buster 9 a problem very often? Are they software fixed or worked around in newer AmigaOS versions? These are the bugs I speak of...

"The Rev 9 part has two bugs that can cause problems with Zorro III cards. One can affect some kinds of bus slave cards, it depends on the card design. This is due to a small flaw in a synchronizer stage in the Level II chip (Level II runs a slightly faster bus protocol than Level I, and also supports burst). The other is a flaw in the Zorro III bus arbiter -- there's a small window in which a Zorro III slave cycle just starting can confuse a bus registration command, locking the bus." -Dave Haynie

The reason I ask is I recently bought a 4000T that came with a socketed Buster 9. It's a Revision 2 motherboard with a hand written sticker that says "1-10-94" and "SER. NO. 2". Oddly enough it came in an Escom/Amiga Tech case. Anyone have "SER. NO. 1"? I want to know all the advantages and disadvantages of running the different Busters, Please. Haynie makes it sound like the Buster 11 is the better bugfixed part. I want to hear more with info and specifics, please. Thanks.
Logged
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2008, 03:32:19 AM »
@ matthey

Quote
The reason I ask is I recently bought a 4000T that came with a socketed Buster 9. It's a Revision 2 motherboard with a hand written sticker that says "1-10-94" and "SER. NO. 2". Oddly enough it came in an Escom/Amiga Tech case. Anyone have "SER. NO. 1"? I want to know all the advantages and disadvantages of running the different Busters, Please. Haynie makes it sound like the Buster 11 is the better bugfixed part. I want to hear more with info and specifics, please. Thanks.

Sounds like a pre-production Commodore board! I've never seen or heard of a 4000T with anything other than a Rev 4 board and a soldered Buster 11. Can you post some photos to the image gallery or one of the hardware databases?

I think the Buster 11 limitations are newly discovered. I'd be curious in learning more as well.
Logged
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2008, 05:40:03 AM »
@Matt_H

Your probably correct that the motherboard is an early C= revision but what is it doing in an ESCOM/Amiga Tech case?
Both of the Amiga hardware databases state that the 4000T only came with the Buster 11. I didn't get the machine new and a socket can be added but that info is probably wrong.

The next time I have the 4000T all apart I'll take some pics and post them. I'll probably start a new thread about it. It might be a while though.
Logged
 

Offline darksun9210

Re: Differences between A4000D and A4000T
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2008, 07:49:14 AM »
hmmm, i actually swapped an A4000/030 for an Escom A4000T, as my A4k/030 with a soldered rev9 buster was able to play happily with a friends Piccaso4 GFX card with all the add ons, but his A4kT with rev11 buster didn't like the piccaso at all.
however, it did like my CV64/3D. so we swapped base machines...

i've never heard of the DMA problem with the A4kT, and used to run a CV64/3D (z3), digital broadcaster elite 32 (z3), AD516 (z2), Vlab Y/C (z2), hydra ethernet (z2). in movieshop, the AD516 used to use the onboard scsi for audio streams, and the digitalbroadcaster would stream video using ultra scsi drives on the 060PPC board. no issues. even streaming audio to pc's shared drives on the network while recording... not sure if the DMA issues you mention would have effected any of those operations...

god i miss that machine... sold it, stupid stupid stupid.

anyway, the digitalbroadcaster, and fastlane Z3 scsi (same chip as onboard the A4kT) both came new with a rev11 buster, so if you are doing alot of I/O across the bus, then a rev11 seems to fix a lot more problems than it creates...

also another main difference between the A4kD and A4kT, is the A4kT is the size of a house and weighs about as much. :-D

no qualified technical expertise, just my personal expirience. draw from, or ignore what you wish...  :lol:
Logged

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »