Author Topic: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000 (Read 3879 times)

nimtene · « **on:** June 23, 2007, 02:06:26 AM »

Hello, very cool forum here, just found out
about it, when searching for some Amiga help.
I'm completely new to using Amigas, so please
forgive if my ignorance is completely obvious.

I got an Amiga 2000 yesterday. It came with
a DCTV connector, which I thought I could
use to output composite to a TV screen, as
I don't have a compatible monitor yet. But
when I boot up the system, all I get is fuzz
on the screen. I know the DCTV is useful for
digitizing video input and such, but am I
wrong in thinking that it will allow me to
directly use my TV as the primary Monitor?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

Terse · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2007, 03:31:38 AM »

Yes, you bought the wrong thing. This is a color framebuffer substitute. The device you want is an A520 adapter.

Ami_GFX · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2007, 03:33:32 AM »

Hi, the DCTV only works with the DCTV software and ouputs 24 bit better than Amiga quality composite video. You need an A520 video adaptor to output the regular Amiga display as color composite video. Another option is an A2300 genlock board and just by coincidence, I just listed mine on Ebay. Here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220124566381&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=012

Most other genlocks will do this as well and some of the better ones will have s-video outs.

Also, if you need the DCTV software, PM me, I have an extra set of disks. Cheers

marcfrick2112 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2007, 03:52:05 AM »

Strictly speaking, the DCTV unit works with a number of apps. besides the DCTV software.... Scenery Animator, ImageFX, VistaPro, maybe others, I can't remember now. Using a program like Rend24, any graphics program that outputs 24-bit frames can be converted to DCTV frames or an .ANIM. Also, check Aminet for a few handy DCTV unils. I own 5 DCTV units, one for each Amiga

Ami_GFX · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2007, 04:10:55 AM »

Quote

I own 5 DCTV units, one for each Amiga

Yeah, DCTV is cool. It is one of the most underrated pieces of Amiga hardware around. I own 3 of them, 2 working and one that I fried by connecting it to a Toaster equipped Amiga. I had read that the Toaster and DCTV were incompatible but I just had to try it once and they weren't kidding about that one. Just glad it didn't fry the Toaster. And that's where my extra disks are from.

rkauer · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2007, 04:29:56 AM »

The A2000 have a videocomponent to outside right in the original board, like the A500, but this is monochrome.

In that conector u can hook a video cable to tv, plus use the audio conectors to the tv set too (stereo RCA conectors), or to a amplifier/stereo box/wathever (don't use in ordinary peecee loudspeakers, the sound will became crappy).

marcfrick2112 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2007, 08:25:40 AM »

Hi Ami_Gfx: Nice bit of info there about DCTV and the Toaster, do you know if there is any workaround? I ask only because I now own 2 A4000's, and I deal with a video company with 'extra' Video Toasters, but worried about the DCTV/VT compatability, as you mentioned.....
Really the question is moot, for me ,at least...I am already down one Amiga monitor, don't you need 3 for a Toaster setup? Plus a TBC??

Feel free to PM me, or whatever.....just curious....

AmigaPixel · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2007, 05:57:25 AM »

Yes much agreed, I spent many good hours with my DCTV. Infact it was the first time I did a full digital painting was on DCTV paint. I used Image FX and Scenery Animator on the the DCTV buffer a lot too. My wife did some really cool paintings with it too. I'll post the some of the artwork as soon as I can find it.
I kept it around even though I haven't used it in a long time because I always new I would come back to it. Since I sold my A1200 (why oh why!) :boohoo: and I am seting up my A2000 with a Video Toaster, I think I'll pickup an A500 just for DCTV. :-)

Ami_GFX · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2007, 06:46:40 AM »

Quote

do you know if there is any workaround?

Since this is a hardware issue--ie there is something that happens when a DCTV is connected to a Toaster equipped Amiga that physically damages the DCTV, work arounds are unlikely. The best work around is a dedicated Amiga.

You need 2 monitors for a Toaster system. One Amiga RGB monitor for the Amiga control panel, one composite monitor for the Toaster output. You can use 3 which will give you a monitor for the Toaster preview output but this is not absoultely neccessary. With the A2000 Toaster, you can use the mono composite out for the control monitor and that is what a lot of video production studios did.

amigadave · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2007, 07:53:54 AM »

Quote

Ami_GFX wrote:

Yeah, DCTV is cool. It is one of the most underrated pieces of Amiga hardware around.................

Totally agree with that statement! DCTV could do amazing displays with minimal resources. I don't understand why it did not succeed more, but I guess that the people that developed it got distracted with bigger and better things (I believe if my memory serves me correctly the developers of DCTV joined with ex-NewTek employees and formed Play Inc.)

IMHO DCTV was a revolutionary device that could have done so much more and could have helped Commodore and Amiga greatly if further development had been done and,or more game programmers had written a version of their games in DCTV format. Can you imagine all of our favorite Amiga games running at 24bit color depth and full speed on any Amiga model.

I once saw at an Amiga Show an stock 030 A3000 w/DCTV running the complete Back to the Future movie in DCTV format from the hard drive, smoothly and at full speed with no skipped frames. This was years before anyone was able to duplicate that feat on a PC or Mac. I was amazed and put the DCTV on my Amiga "Must Have" shopping list. I think I have 6 or 7 DCTV's now and 2 of them have the rare RGB add-on units to allow the DCTV format display to be shown on any 15kHz RGB monitor, like a 1080, or 1084, so you don't have to switch back and forth from RGB to Composite and back.

I thought there was one game that came out in DCTV format, but can't think of the name. Maybe I am confusing it with the 24bit game that came with the OpalVision card?

marcfrick2112 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2007, 08:18:15 AM »

Very Good thread, here...

OK, @AmigaPixel: Well, If you try to get a 500 for your DCTV, at least try to get some mem. expansion beyond 1MB, and if possible, an accelerator...will make using dctv much nicer... I used my DCTV originally with an A500 030/50MHz, 32 MB RAM, worked quite nicely...

@AmigaDave: I think the game you recall was actually for the OpalVision card, never saw a game for DCTV, though theoretically there should be no reason it wouldn't be possible, IMHO.

Oh, and to whoever mentioned about why the DCTV was not more sucessful....original price was $495.00 at indroduction, just checked an old issue of .INFO... Wasn't the A500 about $500 retail itself?

Ridiculous, I just got a DCTV unit, software, and a non-working sound sampler for $4.99 on EBay....

:roll:

vic20owner · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2007, 01:58:54 PM »

I also loved my DCTV. Only drawback of course was that the output was composite. It would be great to hack one into s-video or RGB. I may be interested in buying another one... I don't know what I'd use it for, but I always thought it would have been cool to write a DCTV workbench monitor driver and display 24bit workbench..

But to answer the original question, you can't use it as a composite out for normal use. You need an A520 adapter.

Now, a better solution though is to get the neobitz board and convert RGB->s-video. It's $30 in kit form.

beller · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2007, 05:23:35 PM »

Quote

amigadave wrote:

...I don't understand why it did not succeed more, but I guess that the people that developed it got distracted with bigger and better things (I believe if my memory serves me correctly the developers of DCTV joined with ex-NewTek employees and formed Play Inc.)

IMHO DCTV was a revolutionary device that could have done so much more and could have helped Commodore and Amiga greatly if further development had been done and,or more game programmers had written a version of their games in DCTV format. Can you imagine all of our favorite Amiga games running at 24bit color depth and full speed on any Amiga model.
Quote

Amiga Dave wins the prize for hitting this one right on the head!

As I've said before, I wrote the digitize and process setions, as well as a bunch of the front end, of the DCTV manual. As a result, I was lucky and got to see DCTV before anyone else...I still have the video around here that shows Randy Jongens demoing a very beta version of the software so we could write the manual.

At one point I know that Digital Creations, and their partners from Progressive Image, had talks with Commodore about selling CBM the DCTV technology for installation into upcoming Amiga products (this would have been about the time the A4000/1200 was in development). I think CBM compared DCTV to the AGA concept, which they owned, and decided not to pay Digital for the rights to use DCTV technology.

Not sure if this story every made it beyond the backroom at Digital but, since it's so long and all the companies are gone, what the heck. I feel like Cheney, lets declassify it!

Bob

KThunder · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2007, 06:28:41 PM »

the composite output from an a2300 genlock in a 2000 is way better than an a520 imho and if you ever wanted to you could do genlock stuff with it. even (iirc) genlock the dctv output onto the amiga output from the genlock.

amigadave · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2007, 06:46:11 PM »

Quote

beller wrote:
Quote

amigadave wrote:

...I don't understand why it did not succeed more, but I guess that the people that developed it got distracted with bigger and better things (I believe if my memory serves me correctly the developers of DCTV joined with ex-NewTek employees and formed Play Inc.)

IMHO DCTV was a revolutionary device that could have done so much more and could have helped Commodore and Amiga greatly if further development had been done and,or more game programmers had written a version of their games in DCTV format. Can you imagine all of our favorite Amiga games running at 24bit color depth and full speed on any Amiga model.
Quote

Amiga Dave wins the prize for hitting this one right on the head!

As I've said before, I wrote the digitize and process setions, as well as a bunch of the front end, of the DCTV manual. As a result, I was lucky and got to see DCTV before anyone else...I still have the video around here that shows Randy Jongens demoing a very beta version of the software so we could write the manual.

At one point I know that Digital Creations, and their partners from Progressive Image, had talks with Commodore about selling CBM the DCTV technology for installation into upcoming Amiga products (this would have been about the time the A4000/1200 was in development). I think CBM compared DCTV to the AGA concept, which they owned, and decided not to pay Digital for the rights to use DCTV technology.

Not sure if this story every made it beyond the backroom at Digital but, since it's so long and all the companies are gone, what the heck. I feel like Cheney, lets declassify it!

Bob

You mean I haven't lost all my marbles yet? :lol:

Very interesting to have some of my guesses and memories from the distant past confirmed. I did not know the part about DCTV being considered by Commodore as a native display option for the A4000/A1200. Too bad Commodore/Amiga did not decide to go with both display technologies in the last Amigas and support the DCTV format earlier. With most Amigas connected to 1080 and 1084 monitors in the early days, it would have been a "no brainer" to use the DCTV format for programs that did not need the sharpness of the RGB output, like games and perhaps image manipulation software. I don't know how the DCTV RGB converter works, but it does not seem to be an expensive, or power hungry device (compared to today's graphic display devices and cards). Now I am going to have to spend some time on my A500 w/A530 & 8mb RAM that has one of my DCTV's installed to refresh my memory of all the features and the display quality of the DCTV.

For those unfamiliar with what DCTV is, or does, a short explanation in layman's terms is offered. DCTV displays a composite signal using 3 or 4 bit planes that appears to have a 24bit color range. The Amiga thinks it is just manipulating the 3, or 4 bit planes, so it can easily run animations at a high frame rate using such a low bit plane format. If memory serves me, I think the DCTV display quality is close to standard TV display or VHS composite display quality.

Author Topic: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000 (Read 3879 times)

nimtene

DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

Terse

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

Ami_GFX

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

marcfrick2112

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

Ami_GFX

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

rkauer

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

marcfrick2112

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

AmigaPixel

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

Ami_GFX

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

amigadave

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

marcfrick2112

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

vic20owner

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

beller

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

KThunder

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000

amigadave

Re: DCTV Question for Amiga 2000