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[PMC]

Yes, it's difficult to avoid - you're quite right.

I too have feelings of disgust and shame for the conduct of the western nations in the Iraq debacle - let us not forget that the nation of Iraq only exists because of a British mandate post WW1. However, right now we're all so disillusioned with Whitehall that seeking potential solutions in devolution - I don't believe it frankly.

My whole attitude to the resurgence of regional identity is that it raises the ugly question of nationalism. I don't buy into the whole faux English patriotism which has resurfaced in the last ten years or so, I'm very uncomfortable with it.

I believe that the concept of Britain as an amalgam of Scotland, England and Wales is a good one, but the system is flawed and not the ideal.

[Wilse]

My whole attitude to the resurgence of regional identity is that it raises the ugly question of nationalism. I don't buy into the whole faux English patriotism which has resurfaced in the last ten years or so, I'm very uncomfortable with it.

I know exactly what you mean.

I don't consider myself particularly patriotic and certainly not nationalist. I vote for the National party but there's a difference between being a nationalist and a "Nationalist", if you know what I mean.

My patriotism extends to favouring Scottish sporting teams and not much further.

[CannonFodder]

Wilse wrote:

I know exactly what you mean.

I don't consider myself particularly patriotic and certainly not nationalist. I vote for the National party but there's a difference between being a nationalist and a "Nationalist", if you know what I mean.

My patriotism extends to favouring Scottish sporting teams and not much further.

What you have just said is totally at odds with voting for a nationalist party. :-?

[McVenco]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:

I wish the Frisian National Party and the party of the north would win here too, so we could join with the german Saxons and Frisians, to establish a country.

Couldn't agree more. And let's also build an enormous fence to prevent you weird talking people coming back south to the Netherlands :-D

Oh, and can you also take the Limburgers with you?

Personally, I've had it with people from the Randstad.

I agree here as well. Arrogant b*st*rds they are! :-)

[PMC]

CannonFodder wrote:
What you have just said is totally at odds with voting for a nationalist party. :-?

Not if their policies are more attractive than those offered by their main rivals.

Frankly, the policies on offer at the Toytown Bank mortgage department are more attractive than the policies of the Labour party...

[odin]

"More than 100,000 votes across the country may have to be discounted and problems with the new electronic counting system, being used for the first time in Scotland, also meant several counts were suspended until much later in the day."

:-o

Clickety-click.

[Wilse]

What you have just said is totally at odds with voting for a nationalist party.

Indeed but I didn't vote for a nationalist party.

Did you miss this bit?:

there's a difference between being a nationalist and a "Nationalist"

I'm not a "nationalist" (as I understand that word) but I would like to see an independent Scotland.

A party with the word "National" in their name (doesn't make them nationalists, anymore than the Nazis were socialists) are best placed to deliver independence, so I voted for them.

-EDIT-
That isn't the only reason I voted for them - there are plenty more.

[CannonFodder]

Wilse wrote:

Indeed but I didn't vote for a nationalist party.

Did you miss this bit?:

I'm not a "nationalist" (as I understand that word) but I would like to see an independent Scotland.

A party with the word "National" in their name (doesn't make them nationalists, anymore than the Nazis were socialists) are best placed to deliver independence, so I voted for them.

The difference between "Scottish Independence" and "Scottish Nationalism" is? :-?

[Agafaster]

but why do you want independence ?
what good do you really think it'll do Scotland in the long run ? or is it just to damage England* ?

I'm English and proud, and British, and Proud. heartily so, but with a little less jingoism if you please.
(actually I also have a wee bit of Scots blood too, so I'm allowed to be proud there too !)

*Or is it a resentment of decisions being made in London ?
In which case, I think many English can identify with that feeling !

[Wilse]

The difference between "Scottish Independence" and "Scottish Nationalism" is?

Since I appear to have failed miserably in my previous attempts to convey what I see as the difference, I shall give it one last go:

I see "nationalism" as rabid, xenophobic patriotism, sometimes bordering on fascism. If I hear someone describe another as a nationalist, this is what I usually expect them to mean.
Obviously, the word *can* mean other things. Off the top of my head, "anti-semitism" is another expression that works for me this way. It *can* mean more than one things but when I hear it used, I assume the speaker means anti-Jewish.

Independence is simply freedom from the control of Westminster and the ability to make important decisions at a more local level, better representing the views of the local population. As I already mentioned, foreign policy is an example.

To summarise, I don't see myself as a xenophobic patriot but I do see myself as someone who would like Scotland to be free from London control.

I hope you can now see the difference. :-?

-EDIT-
I also voted for the Green party. They support independence too.

[Wilse]

Agafaster wrote:
but why do you want independence ?

You mean apart from the reason I already gave earlier in the thread?

I'm English and proud, and British, and Proud. heartily so, but with a little less jingoism if you please.
(actually I also have a wee bit of Scots blood too, so I'm allowed to be proud there too !)

Good for you.
As I also explained earlier in the thread, I'm not too keen on the concept of having pride in something you have absolutely hee-haw control over, i.e. your place of birth.
I'm much more comfortable being proud of something I can actually influence.....

Like that time I curled the ball around a seven man wall, from 25 yards out and it sailed into the top corner.....
<eyes mist over as Wilse descends into a pathetically nostalgic reminiscing of the days when he could still play fitbaw.... a bit>
:-)

*Or is it a resentment of decisions being made in London ?
In which case, I think many English can identify with that feeling !

There is an element of that, yes.

[Wilse]

Coming up for four weeks after the election, neither Blair nor Brown has made the traditional call of congratulations to the new Scottish leader.
On the other hand, the leaders in Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic have all received such a call.
Mr. Brown has just been on my telly, point-blank refusing to answer questions about how he would work with Mr. Salmond.

Such transparent disdain for democracy and the will of the people in Scotland will do his party, and indeed unionism in Scotland, no favours whatsoever.

Long may it continue.

[uncharted]

Good riddance! ;-)

[Elektro]

I'm surprised no one posted this yet:



:-P

[Wilse]

uncharted wrote:
Good riddance! ;-)

hahaha.... many a true word and all that..... ;-)