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[KPK]

I know many of you enthusiasts have moved beyond BASIC programming but I myself (even if I'm skilled with common c programming), not being a hardcore developer, enjoy creating programs fast and easy with basic dialect languages. On the Classic Amiga we have both a Blitz Basic (no experience in this one) and AMOS and AMOSPro. Both have moved on to Windows and have evolved.

The AMOS creator have developed Jamagic. And the Blitz author have ported Blitz Basic to the win platform and Direct3D API. There is also alot of other fast and simple basics for Windows.

I think we need a new and strong BASIC for the AmigaOS4.0 which let you get into every strong API in the new Amiga in a easy way. I even think it should be an official BASIC dialect of the Amiga so all newcomers can get started with creating software without having to start at the steep end of the C programming learning curve.

However we put it, there will always be newcomers that want to try and make their first program on a computer. If there is no entrypoint for kids with no skills, they are likely to choose another platform where they can get started but if the new Amiga comes with a package that let you design your own first game with ease, looking at code to see how it's done and so on it might be a strong killer app. An app that will make people stick to their first computer they might get. The AmigaOne with OS4 and beyond. For todays computer newbies and for old timers like myself (being in my thirties) not having the time to code C as a hobby with all the extra effort it requires. Amiga is about having fun. Making your own programs in BASIC is fun as long as it's a strong dialect of it and it doesn't cripple you.

check out: www.darkbasic.com
www.blitzbasic.com
http://www.clickteam.com/English/jamagic.php

What do you guys think or do you know of any plans in this area?

[Coder]

Hi,

Check here to see the work of getting a new Amos. Still in the early stages but I have a strong believe it will be great.

You can help out by betatesting certain parts. I am not sure if a MOS version is in the planning now. Might be a good time to step in, Bill? :-D

Coder

[bloodline]

I have spent a bit of time thinking about this one. I also find BASIC a great way to quickly throw ideas together without having to worry about complex syntax and "advanced" concepts like OOP, and then spend ages trauling through make files and linker scripts...
I liked the way Blitz2 worked.


I have found that using SLD in C takes all the sting out of it and makes using C as simple as Basic... This has make me think about building a simple Blitz Basic 2 compatible(ish) interpretor and use SDL as my Direct Media system. It wouldn't be very fast (or not as fast as possible is compiled), but it would be a quick and fun way try out new ideas.
If it was popular then I would think about building a compiler... Probably just a frontend to gcc:

BASIC--->C+SDL--->ASM--->EXE

[KPK]

I understand we all have different views on how to achieve a nice fast development platform that suits ones needs and platform preference. Certainly developing one ourselves is one option but how complete and ready for newbies will it ever be?

I am aiming at a broader perspective in where one could form a group promoting companies to port their interpreters to our platform or to make Amiga Inc do so or understand the importance of this (if they already don't)

For example on Clickteams homepage on Jamagic there is a page about cross-platform abilities being a part of Jamagic from the start.

Currently they state they have Linux and Mac versions in the works.

Why haven't we heard from anyone developing a strong BASIC for the Amiga. Every platform should have a standard basic. DOS have (Qbasic or the likes) Windows have Visual Basic altough not built in. Commodore 64 boots up in a basic interpreter for gods sake. There is a reason those old home computers became immensly popular. You could start creating right away. We need that for the new Amiga.

[Rogue]

KPK wrote:

I think we need a new and strong BASIC for the AmigaOS4.0 which let you get into every strong API in the new Amiga in a easy way.

What we currently have in mind would be Python. Python isn't exactly BASIC, but it is very close to it, making it still suited for newcomers and advanced programming alike.

This link is a beginner's guide to Python, if you're interested.

[Wilse]

Rogue wrote:

What we currently have in mind would be Python. Python isn't exactly BASIC, but it is very close to it, making it still suited for newcomers and advanced programming alike.

This link is a beginner's guide to Python, if you're interested.

Looks good.
Will this be in an update or the initial release?

[ple3003]

yeah!! Amos was my second heureka after discovering AmigaBasic (which suck by the way ).
I tried programming assembler ( 100010111101101 haha) but couldn't get any serious usage of my "move a value from one adress to another" proggies".
I had many other interests than programming acctually, so C and/or other more complex programming languages would never have caught my attention. I fear that without Amos, i would never have had the pleasure of learning to program at all...

So I agree with you a 100% Bring Amos back to life!

[Rogue]

Wilse wrote:
Looks good.
Will this be in an update or the initial release?

Hard to say. This will depend on how much time is left.

[saimo]

hmm... this thread developed the general taste that BASIC is a kind of magic: the language itself is quite simple, indeed, but what really makes the difference is how easy it is to use the resources of the machine.

Specifically, AMOS was an easy language in the sense that it easily permitted to use graphics, sounds, etc. (with all the deriving limitations).
AMOS' While...Wend is nothing easier than C's or Pascal's; but AMOS had commands like "Screen Open", which immediately allows the programmer to open a screen and play with it knowing nothing about Intuition.

I've programmed a lot in AMOS and I can say that its only severe limitations - apart from speed - were lack of datatypes definition, structured datatypes, real functions (Def Fn is almost a joke, and the Param mechanism is way too clumsy) and real constants (ever tried to compile programs which make use of it? They just crash. And constants are awfully weird to work with,too).
Some may also miss OO mechanisms, but I think that it would be just too much.
Stylewise speaking, it's a matter of personal tastes.
Otherwise I think AMOS is quite nice, and I did enjoy using it over the years, despite my fave language is asm.
Read the BabeAnoid thread on amigaworld.net (ooops! what did I dare to say?!? :-P) for more considerations about AMOS and BASIC in general.

[EDIT]

Ah, one last thing: another reason that makes BASIC more friendly than other language is that it is generally interpreted and thus has the great advantage of immediate on-the-fly testing.

Regards,
saimo

[ple3003]

I agree with you saimo.
The simpleness of opening a screen, or getting x,y coordinates of the mouse, or reading the paralell/serialport in one command, without having to call 5 librarys and initiate bla bla bla...
(almost) everyone have to start somewhere, and in my case it was amos. It was hard enough to get into at first.
By the way, what happened to AmigaE?

[takemehomegrandma]

@ KPK

I agree. Basic is needed, preferrably one that is close to Amos in it's design. One of the biggest advantages with Amos was it's highly integrated developer's envireonment. Simple, yet powerful. Everything was there and there were no problems with compiling, linking, etc. Just press that little "play" button! :-)

Check out http://www.purebasic.com/. It's available for Windows, Linux and Amiga. The Windows version has the most features, the others are somewhat lagging behind. Browse through the online documentation found under the support page. It has some very powerful features (including the usage of Quake3 3D worlds), and yet it's quite simple. It also has a IDE.

I was thinking about checking out PowerD the other day (when I saw an announcement or something). But I think that is closer to E than Basic.

@ Rogue

Pascal is another "non-basic" but similar language with an easy syntax. Perhaps more "clean" than both Basic and Python (with it's declaration of variables and so on). But Basic rules! :-)

But what really makes the difference is the inclusion of an IDE, IMO.

[takemehomegrandma]

@ Saimo

Sure, Amos had a lot of flaws. It kind of "lived in it's own world", offering it's own solutions to things sometimes instead of using the functionality offered by the OS if I remember correctly. I remember using the OS GUI and requesters in programs was quite difficult, for instance ...

Some may also miss OO mechanisms, but I think that it would be just too much.

I agree, then it would move away from the simplicity that is it's greatest power. There are other languages that offers OO functionality. Basic should be simple and fast to work with.

[SamuraiCrow]

By the way, what happened to AmigaE?

E was expanded somewhat by another author and became "CreativE". Both are now open source and available on Aminet in dev/e. (Note: CreativE is email-ware.)

The standard E-Modules are only current through AmigaOS 3.1, however.

i agree to takemehomegrandma
PureBasic is a very well structured languange based on Blitz syntax mainly
and very powerfull
in PureBasic its really as it should BAsic should
i.e. LoadSprite , OpenScreen , DisplaySprite
it has amiga version and the reason it lags behind Windows version is the lack of people provide some interest for it
and really worthing support

I also started with Amos, and loved it right away. No wonder it doesn't use normal Amiga solutions though, considering it's based on STOS from Atari.

After a while I moved to Blitz 2 instead, and I think this offered a lot more power (compiler, intuition, inline assembler for those wanting extra speed etc.).