»

[nasty]

Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail, it now makes sence. I take it you cant get an LC or EC 060?

[Kin-Hell]

nasty wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail, it now makes sence. I take it you cant get an LC or EC 060?

EC puppies here:
66Mhz 060 CPU's for Sale
Full puppies here:
50Mhz 060 CPU's for sale

However, if you're into Ray Tracing or suchlike, basically anything that uses an FPU, then stick to at least an LC chip. A 50Mhz LC CPU will blow a 66Mhz EC CPU out of the water on Flops (FPU) Calculations.
MMU's are also required to Soft-kick ROM Images into Ram as well as run Unix. :-D

[Piru]

@CatHerder

Will your Amiga run slower with an LC chip? Absolutely not. Will it run slower if you use specific applications requiring, or benefitting from an FPU? NO. The only time you will notice ANY problems is if you intend to run Unix on your Amiga (an A3000UX for example because Unix requires a MMU). Other than that, there is no "bad thing" about having an LC chip in an Amiga.

68040/68060 Amiga requires MMU for proper DMA operation (DMA + CopyBack cache). The reasons are described in the Enforcer documentation (in the Enforcer.guide: 'Enforcer', 'Important 680x0.library developer notes' and 'COPYBACK mode and DMA').

Naturally you can run the system without copyback cache, but the performance will be poor then.

[CatHerder]

Piru, that's what I thought too (and thought I recalled). But I also recall being told by our Motorola rep and our Commodore rep that selling 4000's with LC chips would only be effected (slower) for people who were doing renderings or video editing or other math intensive operations. And then Motorola's website contradicts itself as well for the XC/RC040 chips.

So, I guess people should try to stick with 68040 (non LC non EC) to be sure. :-D

[Piru]

@CatHerder

For some reason I trust Michael Sinz more than some motorola/commodore rep :-)

[CatHerder]

nasty wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail, it now makes sence. I take it you cant get an LC or EC 060?

No, but you can get 68EC060 cpus that are not the same as 68060 cpus and you generally want to avoid them because they contain a different set of replacement instructions that most Amiga accelerators don't know how to use and they lack a MMU.

Also, if you see a 68040RC66A (or 75A) (the A being important) you should avoid it or try to replace it with a non "A" chip version. I don't recall specifically why, but I think it had something to do with a different set of instructions in the chip that the Amiga can't address.

Of course, like anything I discuss, I could be talking out my arse... but I'm pretty sure I'm fairly accurate on the above info.

[Kin-Hell]

Okay, so after a huge expanse of time, I finally get to the bottom of this isuue.....sort of!

After sliding the Heatsink off the CPU & cleaning the gallons of unecessary heat paste of the Cooler, CPU and daughter-card :roll: I exposed the CPUs part number & reeled in horror!

It's an LC 040 CPU.

I've never owned an Amiga without an FPU (till now) & still can't understand SysInfo NOT showing the Clockspeed of the CPU at launch!?!?!?

Also, despite the fact the Card is labelled as a v3.1, the card is infact a v3.2. The U209 PAL chip ends with a -03, thereby making this card a v3.2. This could also be why SysInfo falls over & wont show the Speeds on launch!

I should know a bit more when I get a Full 040 CPU but when that will be, who knows!

Cheers for now.

[alexh]

CatHerder wrote:
The 68LC040 includes an FPU but lacks a MMU. (Memory Management Unit) It actualy DOES include an FPU. (

68LC040 - includes both CPU and FPU

Total RUBBISH! LC's have no FPU but DO have an MMU.

Will your Amiga run slower with an LC chip? Absolutely not. Will it run slower if you use specific applications requiring, or benefitting from an FPU? NO.

Again BOLLOCKS. For software requiring an FPU an LC040 will run a software FPU emulator, that is if it works at all. Performance will be terrible!

yesterday I went and read the specs from Motorola explaining the difference

.
Erm Motorola / Freescale website:

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68040&nodeId=0162468rH3YTL C61654622

o On-Chip Floating Point Support (Full 040)
o On-Chip Memory Management Unit(Full 040, LC040, and 040V)

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MC68LC040APPA.pdf

Sorry for sounding a bit harsh, but you appear to be quoting rubbish in the hope of flogging some inferior LC040 chips to poor unsuspecting Amiga users

[Kin-Hell]

It's a good shout alexh, but whaddya think about SysInfo not showing the CPUs Speed or details when SysInfo launches first screen?
Its got me beat till I can get a Full 040 CPU for this card.
I'd know for sure then. :-?

[alexh]

If sysinfo v3.24 is the program that I remember i.e.



On high end Amiga's it is a pile of poo. It crashes on my A4000D too.

I cannot remember if SCOUT has any CPU information:
http://www.aminet.net/package.php?package=util/moni/Scout.lha

A quick google showed up this program...

http://www.elho.net/dev/amiga/sysinfo/

Did this program ever really exist... I cannot find it on the net any version let alone the last 2.26 version. Being written in 1998 might give it the edge, if I could find it.

[Doobrey]

Edit: forgot it..I was talking outta the wrong orifice..

[alexh]

@kin-hell

Something to attempt in a vain effort to be able to run the speed test on the 1994 NickWilson Sysinfo (3.24) Check your 040 libraries, perhaps revert back to commodore ones?

[Kin-Hell]

At last, the concluding results to this mystery. Today, a
Motorola XC68040HRC25M arrived from this chap in Germany.
manshadow@onlinehome.de
Im sure he'll appreciate the enquiries.
This chip replaced a Motorola XC68LC040RC25B CPU which has an MMU but no FPU.
Oh yeah, & SysInfo....works like a dream, going to show my gut feelings about how these LC chips actually work, or DONT work. Maybe there are some patched libraries for these LC chips so things show & work right? At the same time, I doubt there are, as the LC chips were a late release in the 040 family. I would imagine they were re-marketed failures from soak tested batches.
Sys info now shows the CPU info, its speed, its fpu & mmu & speed tests correctly.
I can't find my 66Mhz crystal, but I have a 60 sat here begging to be socketed.
Thanks to Effy, he sold me the card orignally, not realising it was a v3.2 card. Its cost me another £25 to fund the card which releases an LC 040 CPU for sale.
Anyone wanting this CPU only has to pay the cost of postage & buy me a beer for the trip to the Post Office.
Cheers!

PS......er, keyring anyone?.........

[alexh]

Thanks to Effy, he sold me the card orignally, not realising it was a v3.2 card.

I think he would have sold it to you regardless?

The advantage of a v3.2 card over a v3.1 card are almost nill, slight speed increase and the ability to use a GVP Phonepak!

A3640's V3.0 with the cut 'n' jump are almost good enough for most systems.

[Effy]

If I knew it was a V3.2 then I still would have sold it for the same price Sorry for all the confusion but I really didn´t want to cause that much commotion :-) Happy to hear you have now got a full 040 But be careful with overclocking faster than a 66 Mhz crystal as I have read the problem may not be the processor but the A3640 itself ...