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[smithy]

I was absolutely astonished and shocked to read this, but it seems the Tories are now backing the Government's proposals on ID cards:

Here

From reports, the party is clearly heavily divided over the issue. I don't understand why Mr Howard would back such a policy that is:

1. So unpopular
2. Risks splitting his party
3. Is against the right-wing libertarianism view that today's Tory party stands for.

I'm very annoyed about this, and as a traditional Tory voter I think I'm going to have to reconsider my vote at the next election. Unfortunately the alternatives are worse: UKIP: sensationalists, Labour: EU fantatics + right-wing authoritarians, Liberals: EU fanatics.

Looks like it might be a spoiled paper for me :-(

[KennyR]

Smithy, the Conservatives may protray themselves as being libertarian, but their party still has a solid backbone of old school authoritarians whose views haven't changed since the days of Empire - and Howard is one of them. Every time this party entertains progressive right-wing views its a struggle just to try to convince the old boys and usually splits the party. That's always been the case. Old Thatcher kept them from fighting, but she was the biggest authoritarian of the lot - just not when it became to commerce. Just like the Empire. Worst possible combination, IMO.

[smithy]

KennyR wrote:
Smithy, the Conservatives may protray themselves as being libertarian, but their party still has a solid backbone of old school authoritarians whose views haven't changed since the days of Empire - and Howard is one of them.

I think this is just a stereotype. Leaders after Thatcher (Major, Hague, Duncan-Smith) have been very libertarian. All of them spoke against ID cards for liberty reasons, for instance. Even Howard was opposed just a few weeks ago.

In the end, I suspect the House of Lords will vote it down, just as they have voted down most of the Government's anti-freedom bills. Ironic, isn't it, that the socialists of old Labour despise the old Tories in the Lords, yet together (albeit not actually co-operating) they have done more to defend the country against the more extreme policies of the Government than anyone else. Imagine if they succeeded in replacing the Lords with an elected House - it would be just like the Government controlled Commons, and there'd be no check on the Government.

How ironic that the unelected Upper House reflects the will of the people more than elected Commons.

[the_leander]

The thing is that the Lords litterally live eat and sleep politics without the worry of having to be elected, all they have to worry about is doing the job... The fact that they hate all governments and can slap down things that are BS is just a perk for them heh :-)

RE the Tory party, of all the bone headed ill thought out rubbish that the Tories have come up with since they were last in power, of all the things they have signed themselves upto alongside the government with THIS has to be the biggest blunder I have yet seen.

Even Hague, and that prat IDS have had the good graces to stay well away from this.

If for no other reason, the Tories should have maintained their previous posision of "We'll look into it". As it stands this just makes them look like slimy SOB's.

[KennyR]

Blunkett has just resigned, having decided that the laws he spends so much time creating for us aren't worth following himself. I doubt any other politician will dare pick up his ID card gauntlet after that. If they do, they can expect much the same fate.

KennyR wrote:
Blunkett has just resigned, having decided that the laws he spends so much time creating for us aren't worth following himself. I doubt any other politician will dare pick up his ID card gauntlet after that. If they do, they can expect much the same fate.

Very true, also I don't think there is anyone in the government who is as right-wing as Blunkett, so whoever gets the job can't be anywhere near as bad.

[the_leander]

Perhaps not as right wing, but they can certainly get any number of dumb MP's from the backbenches to field this, knowing full well that they don't have to worry about it.

I'd like to believe that the ID card would die with the Blunkinator's career, but I've just got this nasty feeling that it won't.

the_leander wrote:
Perhaps not as right wing, but they can certainly get any number of dumb MP's from the backbenches to field this, knowing full well that they don't have to worry about it.

I'd like to believe that the ID card would die with the Blunkinator's career, but I've just got this nasty feeling that it won't.

What we really need to happen, is for the BNP to publicly state their approval of these ID cards.

Blair would backtrack so fast, you miss it if you blinked! ;-)

[the_leander]

you might be onto something there :-D

the_leander wrote:
you might be onto something there :-D

Well, you would think the BNP would have backed it by now, afterall they are the most right wing fascist party we have in this country at present.

[mikeymike]

I guess I'm voting libdem now :-)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

are the libdems the good or the bad guys? (Kenny?)

[smithy]

KennyR wrote:
Blunkett has just resigned, having decided that the laws he spends so much time creating for us aren't worth following himself. I doubt any other politician will dare pick up his ID card gauntlet after that. If they do, they can expect much the same fate.

Looks like his replacement, Charles Clarke, says he strongly supports plans for ID cards, that he "shared many of Mr Blunkett's views", and "There will be continuity between David's approach and mine".

More of the same then.

Blunkett has already done a lot of damage. He's introduced the Civil Contingencies Bill which gives the Government the power to suspend the democracy, without asking the Queen.

And check out Rowan Atkinson's comments on the plans to censor debate about religion. Here.

When you read Nineteen-Eighty-Four, you ask yourself, "how did this happen?". It seems it happened like this, one seemingly unrelated step at a time.

[smithy]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
are the libdems the good or the bad guys? (Kenny?)

They would prefer we walked into a police state controlled by the EU Commision, rather than the British Government. Big group, small group? What's the difference?

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
are the libdems the good or the bad guys? (Kenny?)

Neither, they can't make they're minds up which ones they are! ;-) :-P