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Old 02-04-2013, 02:25 AM   #2301
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by freqmax View Post
Why is "AB3D II The Killing Grounds" such a good testing software?
it never ran on full speed.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:06 AM   #2302
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

@ChaosLord:

Result of BusTest on the FPGA Arcade base board with original firmware (not the new one) :
Commande 'BusTest fast chip rom'
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
================================================== ======================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $01138000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readl 523.8 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writew 350.4 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writel 520.4 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writew 350.1 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writel 520.7 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readw 350.3 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readm 421.7 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s

Workbench 3.1 and PAL HiRes Interlaced 640x512 256 Colors installed on a 999MB HDF File used for test.

Kickstart 3.1 and Chipset AGA, 68020 at 50MHz, 2MB Chip and 59MB Fast ram, 4 floppy drives activated.

For Alien Breed 3D 2 aga, it's playable at 50MHz speed (like on a real 030/25MHz Amiga), it's smooth at 99MHz.

Thanks, Faranheit
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:49 AM   #2303
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by freqmax View Post
Why is "AB3D II The Killing Grounds" such a good testing software?
It's the slowest thing I have ever seen on my Amiga
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:50 AM   #2304
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faranheit View Post
@ChaosLord:

Result of BusTest on the FPGA Arcade base board with original firmware (not the new one) :
Commande 'BusTest fast chip rom'
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
================================================== ======================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $01138000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readl 523.8 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writew 350.4 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writel 520.4 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writew 350.1 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writel 520.7 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readw 350.3 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readm 421.7 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s

Workbench 3.1 and PAL HiRes Interlaced 640x512 256 Colors installed on a 999MB HDF File used for test.

Kickstart 3.1 and Chipset AGA, 68020 at 50MHz, 2MB Chip and 59MB Fast ram, 4 floppy drives activated.

For Alien Breed 3D 2 aga, it's playable at 50MHz speed (like on a real 030/25MHz Amiga), it's smooth at 99MHz.

Thanks, Faranheit
The old core does not have cache/pre-fetch running as is not using the dedicated memory channel for RTG. It will be slow ....
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:44 AM   #2305
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikej View Post
The old core does not have cache/pre-fetch running as is not using the dedicated memory channel for RTG. It will be slow ....
I'm looking forward to reading about all the new features in the new core, once it is available. Dedicated memory channel for RTG, for example.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:00 AM   #2306
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

There's only only one memory channel physically asfair? and the other possible one is CPU<->fastmem on daughterboard. Provided you have a physical CPU inserted.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:58 AM   #2307
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikej View Post
The old core does not have cache/pre-fetch running as is not using the dedicated memory channel for RTG. It will be slow ....
Could you cook up a version of the core that had more bandwidth for the chipram?

Lots of games use the CPU for blitting since 1990 and they need faster chipram speed.

For example if all the orginal 64MB was used as chipram and ALL the 28MB/sec of bandwidth went for that then it would be really kewl! Plenty of ppl would like that. Maybe this would only work when using the Daughterboard.

It could be the "AGA Optimized" core that ppl could use when playing AGA games.

The "RTG Core" (with the dedicated RTG memory channel) could be the normal core that ppl use as default.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:20 AM   #2308
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

I think the basic problem is that CPU + custom chips share the same memory interface. And the screen updates need a constant amount of bit per second.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:46 AM   #2309
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
AB3D II The Killing Grounds !!!
Maybe some NovaCoder's stuff like his Quake I or Quake II port for AGA.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:59 AM   #2310
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Although there is only one physical DRAM interface, the current core uses it as a single random access memory. As long as the address(es) are in a separate physical bank inside the memory it is possible to effectively do several reads at the same time. So, for the display controller it can bust read memory at the same time as the CPU without impacting its performance.

A clever memory controller will automatically open as many banks as possible at the same time, so by careful address mapping of chip / fast regions we could speed things up.
/MikeJ
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:30 PM   #2311
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

I have made some tests using bustest and my A4000 and both of my Replay boards (Rev.A with daughterboard and standard Rev.B). What do you think?
Code:
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv)   Buffer:     262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
memtype	op 	A4K PAL	A4K VGA	A4K RTG	RP PAL	RP VGA	060 PAL	060 VGA	060 RTG
fast 	readw 	33.7	33.6	33.7	20.9	19.4	52.9	52.3	52.8
fast 	readl 	39.6	39.2	39.5	28.4	28.2	60.2	60.5	60.3
fast 	readm 	39.5	39.6	39.4	29.3	29.2	60.7	60.7	59.7
fast 	writew 	27.7	27.4	27.6	5.8	4.7	49.3	48.8	49.0
fast 	writel 	27.5	27.6	27.6	7.7	6.2	48.6	49.1	48.6
fast 	writem 	27.6	27.7	27.5	10.9	8.3	49.3	48.9	48.7
chip 	readw 	1.7	0.7	2.3	5.8	4.7	7.1	7.1	7.1
chip 	readl 	3.4	1.4	4.7	7.7	6.2	14.1	14.1	14.1
chip 	readm 	3.4	1.4	4.7	10.9	8.3	14.1	14.1	14.1
chip 	writew 	2.4	1.1	3.5	5.8	4.7	11.7	8.9	14.0
chip 	writel 	4.8	2.2	7.0	7.7	6.2	23.1	17.7	27.9
chip 	writem 	4.8	2.2	7.0	10.9	8.3	23.1	17.9	27.9
rom 	readw 	33.5	33.7	33.7	20.9	19.4	52.6	52.9	52.5
rom 	readl 	39.5	39.4	39.4	28.4	28.2	60.0	60.1	60.5
rom 	readm 	39.3	39.2	39.0	29.3	29.2	60.7	60.3	60.5

A4K - A4000 w/ CS MKII 060 60MHz + 128MB 60ns DRAM + Picasso IV
RP - Replay w/ Minimig AGA core + TG68K 28MHz dcache/icache + 8MB FAST RAM
060 - Replay w/ Minimig AGA/RTG core + Rev.6 68060 106MHz + 128MB 53MHz SDRAM
PAL - 640x512x256 (PAL High Res Laced)
VGA - 640x480x256 (Productivity)
RTG - 1024x768x256
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #2312
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Damn!
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #2313
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

@yaqube

impressive values! I would love that the 060 board included some kind of SATA port but USB2 will be better than nothing :-)
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #2314
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
I have made some tests using bustest and my A4000 and both of my Replay boards (Rev.A with daughterboard and standard Rev.B). What do you think?
Code:
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv)   Buffer:     262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
memtype	op 	A4K PAL	A4K VGA	A4K RTG	RP PAL	RP VGA	060 PAL	060 VGA	060 RTG
fast 	readl 	39.6	39.2	39.5	28.4	28.2	60.2	60.5	60.3
fast 	writel 	27.5	27.6	27.6	7.7	6.2	48.6	49.1	48.6
chip 	writel 	4.8	2.2	7.0	7.7	6.2	23.1	17.7	27.9


A4K - A4000 w/ CS MKII 060 60MHz + 128MB 60ns DRAM + Picasso IV
RP - Replay w/ Minimig AGA core + TG68K 28MHz dcache/icache + 8MB FAST RAM
060 - Replay w/ Minimig AGA/RTG core + Rev.6 68060 106MHz + 128MB 53MHz SDRAM
PAL - 640x512x256 (PAL High Res Laced)
VGA - 640x480x256 (Productivity)
RTG - 1024x768x256
Woohoo! I can easily attain triple speed AGA blitting on a Replay+Daughtercard!

Copy MyBankAccount:#? ALL FORCE QUICK to Yaqube:BankAccount/


I noticed you listed VGA mode times. Is that the way to get flickerfree AGA gfx on a replay? To use DoublePAL, DoubleNTSC or VGA modes?

Luckily my gamecode already supports both PAL and DoublePAL even though DoublePAL is mostly useless on a real A1200.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:05 PM   #2315
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLord View Post

Copy MyBankAccount:#? ALL FORCE QUICK to Yaqube:BankAccount/

Hahaha! Nice to see I'm not the only who loves AmigaDOS (not WB) around here
I always wondered why the Los Gatos team decided to include connectives in commands like "from", "to", etc... it makes AmigaDOS a very fun yet easy DOS to use. My favorite over Linux and Risc OS.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:22 PM   #2316
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLord View Post
I noticed you listed VGA mode times. Is that the way to get flickerfree AGA gfx on a replay? To use DoublePAL, DoubleNTSC or VGA modes?
Yes, all programmable modes like DoublePal, DoubleNTSC, Multiscan etc are supported.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:39 PM   #2317
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
Yes, all programmable modes like DoublePal, DoubleNTSC, Multiscan etc are supported.
I meant is that the only way to get a flickerfree interlaced AGA display?

Like does Replay have a hardware flickerfixer built-in that can deinterlace the Amiga's interlace modes? And if so, is it free? Or does it use the same amount of bandwidth as the corresponding Double#? mode?

My real Amiga has a hardware flickerfixer so all my PAL and NTSC interlace software displays to my VGA monitor without costing me any extra bandwidth.

I'm just trying to figure out what to tell ppl when they play my games on Replay.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:14 AM   #2318
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
I have made some tests using bustest and my A4000 and both of my Replay boards (Rev.A with daughterboard and standard Rev.B). What do you think?
[CODE]
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
memtype op A4K PAL A4K VGA A4K RTG RP PAL RP VGA 060 PAL 060 VGA 060 RTG
fast readw 33.7 33.6 33.7 20.9 19.4 52.9 52.3 52.8
chip readw 1.7 0.7 2.3 5.8 4.7 7.1 7.1 7.1
My conclusion:
* Video modes that use more bit/s will leave less capacity for other stuff.
* Faster memory interface = more capacity
* Separate memory for CPU = faster read/writes

The RP+060 is perfect in all those aspects.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:37 AM   #2319
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Considering it's almost finished and not yet optimized, those numbers are incredible.

Congrats guys, that's so much better than existing motherboards that you're really making me want one.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:41 AM   #2320
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Default Re: FPGA Replay Board

Will using the expansion board without the 060 give any performance boost over the vanilla Replay? Or would I be best to get my hands on the cheapest RC model I can find?
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