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[psxphill]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

Okay, so the server version is exempt. Big frickin' deal. Are you going to be able to get the server version for home use? If so, is it going to be the same price as the home version? Because if it's not, then it's pretty clear where Microsoft wants users to go.

You missed my point, you're not forced to use windows store apps on the home or pro version either.

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

And how many other terrible things have been justified by saying it's "necessary" because people just don't know what's best for themselves? Vendor-controlled software distribution is a hideous idea and I don't give a damn if someone thinks it might help security. Security at what price? The freedom to run whatever software you God-damn please? No thanks.

Don't buy an Arm windows 8 tablet then, the intel based tablets aren't locked into the windows store either.

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

It worked for Apple because Apple has spent decades creating a user culture that wants to be coddled and have their hand held and never once have to think about the fact that their computer doesn't run on magic and that they might sometimes have to understand it a little bit in order to keep it running well.

If by that you mean that they sold something locked down and while some people got a bit upset about it, the majority got used to the idea and it's actually worked out really well for them.

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

That's because I am. You seem to think that that's a way to dismiss my arguments, as if the mere fact that I have an emotional reaction to it means that it's therefore not grounded in rational thinking.

You're right, I don't think your reaction is grounded in rational thinking.

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

I'm upset about Windows 8 because it's another step taken towards the death of general-purpose computing and into a future where computers are mere appliances that are only allowed to perform a selected set of functions chosen by the vendor, which will be acting in its best interests with the user's as an afterthought.

I'm already running windows 8. I haven't used the windows store once. I didn't even create an account yet, so I actually can't. Microsoft haven't any control over what software I install. I'm not sure what your point is.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by psxphill

You missed my point, you're not forced to use windows store apps on the home or pro version either.

Not yet, no, because it would be suicide for them to try that. But it's plainly the direction they want to go, which is why they've been telling developers outright that Metro is the future of Windows and they better hurry up and switch. As soon as they think they can get away with it, I guarantee you that Win32 is going bye-bye.

If by that you mean that they sold something locked down and while some people got a bit upset about it, the majority got used to the idea and it's actually worked out really well for them.

Yes it has - because they already cultivated a user base with a pathological fear of complexity. (But even they had to take advantage of introducing a new platform to accustom its users to the idea, and they're only gradually moving Mac OS X there.) Microsoft hasn't. They're trying to position themselves as saving the user from something a lot of Windows users don't need or want to be saved from.

You're right, I don't think your reaction is grounded in rational thinking.

If you think I'm irrational, why are you trying to reason with me? And on what grounds do you say my arguments are irrational?

I'm already running windows 8. I haven't used the windows store once. I didn't even create an account yet, so I actually can't. Microsoft haven't any control over what software I install. I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that that's where they're going with this. Yes, they haven't gotten there yet, because even they could tell that it would be suicide to try and move to a closed model all at once. Microsoft clearly wants to move Windows to being a closed system, and Windows 8 shows which steps towards that goal they think they can get away with at present. If this succeeds, Windows 9 will push it still further, until such time as they feel they can jettison the old openness completely.

[ferrellsl]

Paying to downgrade your system is just ridiculous.....

[persia]

Once again, Windows RT (on the Surface) is locked down, Windows 8 (on everything else) is not.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by persia

Once again, Windows RT (on the Surface) is locked down, Windows 8 (on everything else) is not.

Not yet.

[takemehomegrandma]

Originally Posted by whabang

Windows-promotions on AO? What has the World come to?

Well, since the thread is here anyway, I have a quad core I7 with fast (and enough) ram, a fast gfx card, etc system running Win7 today. For me, Win7 is working truly great. It's fast, and it's stable, and it runs everything I need in a very good way. Once I got settled with Win7, I have never looked back at XP. I also fail to see the need for "Metro" on my desktop. I really can't see the Unique Selling Point for Win8 to a happy Win7 user as myself?!

So, could anyone a little more educated than myself about the issue please tell me your top 5 reasons (in descending order) to why I should pick up on this offer of $39.99 Win8 upgrade?

Please fill in your arguments here:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

So, could anyone a little more educated than myself about the issue please tell me your top 5 reasons (in descending order) to why I should pick up on this offer of $39.99 Win8 upgrade?

But TMHG, don't you understand? It's only $39.99! Yes, only $39.99! But wait! There's more! Order now and you'll also receive this genuine Ginsu steak knife absolutely free! Yes, you get the tablet-desktop-phone-XBox hybrid operating system of the future and the steak knife, all for the low, low price of only $39.99! Call now! Operators are standing by!

[persia]

Because "Metro" apps are going to suck the lifeblood out of all other apps. Why develop for Windows 7 and below and when you can get tablets and desktops with Windows 8 development.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by persia

Why develop for Windows 7 and below and when you can get tablets and desktops with Windows 8 development.

Because Win32 software will work on Windows 7 and on Windows 8 (and any future versions up to the point where Microsoft decides they can get away with killing it,) and Win32 is actually designed to be suitable for desktop use, as opposed to trying to cram tablet UI down users' throats whether or not they're actually on a tablet?

[Duce]

I ask again - John, have you tried Windows 8?

I hate the tiles nonsense as much as anyone else and I will not be upgrading to 8, just curious if you have tried it.

It is delusional to think they are going to kill the "install what you want" on the open Windows 8 (non RT) version. Even Apple hasn't gone that gonzo yet.

MS to Adobe:

MS: "Hey guys, we're changing what we had for 30 years - you now have to make a special version of Photoshop and I'm afraid that means you can't sell it anywhere but our stores and the users will not be dealing with you on your own product at all. OH, by the way - we take 30% of the profits"

Adobe (and every other major vendor): "**** you"

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by Duce

I ask again - John, have you tried Windows 8?

I hate the tiles nonsense as much as anyone else and I will not be upgrading to 8, just curious if you have tried it.

No, I don't have a spare system that meets its requirements and I hate VMs. Have you tried it? Is there anything you get from hands-on use that makes these design decisions not incredibly stupid?

It is delusional to think they are going to kill the "install what you want" on the open Windows 8 (non RT) version. Even Apple hasn't gone that gonzo yet.

It seems insane to me, too - but they've put heavy emphasis on promoting Metro development, they've outright locked the free version of Visual Studio into only building Metro apps, and simply, it's the logical extension of what they're trying to do. They're making these moves because they want a slice of Apple's "app-store" pie; the only reason to leave in a way around that is because they know damn well it would be suicide to try cutting it at this point in time. When they think they can get away with it, mark my words, it will be gone.

[runequester]

Originally Posted by Duce

I ask again - John, have you tried Windows 8?

I hate the tiles nonsense as much as anyone else and I will not be upgrading to 8, just curious if you have tried it.

It is delusional to think they are going to kill the "install what you want" on the open Windows 8 (non RT) version. Even Apple hasn't gone that gonzo yet.

MS to Adobe:

MS: "Hey guys, we're changing what we had for 30 years - you now have to make a special version of Photoshop and I'm afraid that means you can't sell it anywhere but our stores and the users will not be dealing with you on your own product at all. OH, by the way - we take 30% of the profits"

Adobe (and every other major vendor): "**** you"

And what's to stop them?

Adobe can say **** off but then what? Even if they start throwing all their weight behind Mac OS and Linux, that just means 90% of the install base won't buy the product anymore.

Microsoft controls the market. When they say dance, everyone goes home and get's their monkey.

[TheBilgeRat]

Originally Posted by takemehomegrandma

Well, since the thread is here anyway, I have a quad core I7 with fast (and enough) ram, a fast gfx card, etc system running Win7 today. For me, Win7 is working truly great. It's fast, and it's stable, and it runs everything I need in a very good way. Once I got settled with Win7, I have never looked back at XP. I also fail to see the need for "Metro" on my desktop. I really can't see the Unique Selling Point for Win8 to a happy Win7 user as myself?!

So, could anyone a little more educated than myself about the issue please tell me your top 5 reasons (in descending order) to why I should pick up on this offer of $39.99 Win8 upgrade?

Please fill in your arguments here:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

So far, the reasons to upgrade are:

Supposedly faster/more stable
Metro, if you like it
No Metro, if you don't
eight is bigger than seven

[koaftder]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

No, I don't have a spare system that meets its requirements and I hate VMs.

You've been railing about this for months, if not an entire year or longer and you've never even tried it?

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by koaftder

You've been railing about this for months, if not an entire year or longer and you've never even tried it?

Correct. I didn't have a spare system and I hated VMs then, too.

I ask again: is there some kind of mysterious revelation, incommunicable in mortal tongues, that is obtained by running the demo version that somehow makes these design decisions not horrid?