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[Darrin]

Wildstar, Middleman, Dammy and Leo say "Goodnight boys and girls, we don't want to play anymore."

[WotTheFook]

"I didn't come here for an argument!"
"Yes you did!"
"No I didn't!!"

/monty python

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by Duce

Enough of the personal insults. Just enough. If you want to view a differing viewpoint, do it in a civil fashion. You aren't going to "convert the heathens" here. The "Heathens" are quite happy with their little retro hobby, cold pizza and Jolt.

It's beyond me why a mod hasn't banned your account for the personal insults/abuse factors.

Laughable really. At least when Franko was going off the rails and being abusive, he was factual and funny. You are just being an abusive bore.

Duce,

Show me what the price is for the FPGA and all its components and the PCB at volumes production at 100, 1000, 10,000 and 100,000 unit batch order volume.

I want to see a viable and sustainable business plan for running a full operating business supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics. I have not seen anything that allows for paid employees or even paying the owner a salary of any kind in a long time.

On a mainstream level, I am trying to figure out a way to get the volume produced at a price that won't cause it to be market designated into the console market or the desktop computer market just as the C64DTV was. If I was in charge of Commodore USA, I would need it to be in the market with the Atari Flashback 2 in order to sell without having to have the CPU clocks per cycles and memory in terms of MBytes per $1 as a modern PC and game consoles.

Of course, if you can seriously contend with a PPC Amiga x1000 type system that can be sold for under $199 and compete with every game console on the market or soon to be on the market within $2 years then maybe it might work if you got the games.

Maybe but there got to be modern software and games or you have a worse issue then the CD32.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Wildstar128

Duce,

Show me what the price is for the FPGA and all its components and the PCB at volumes production at 100, 1000, 10,000 and 100,000 unit batch order volume.

I want to see a viable and sustainable business plan for running a full operating business supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics. I have not seen anything that allows for paid employees or even paying the owner a salary of any kind in a long time.

On a mainstream level, I am trying to figure out a way to get the volume produced at a price that won't cause it to be market designated into the console market or the desktop computer market just as the C64DTV was. If I was in charge of Commodore USA, I would need it to be in the market with the Atari Flashback 2 in order to sell without having to have the CPU clocks per cycles and memory in terms of MBytes per $1 as a modern PC and game consoles.

Of course, if you can seriously contend with a PPC Amiga x1000 type system that can be sold for under $199 and compete with every game console on the market or soon to be on the market within $2 years then maybe it might work if you got the games.

Maybe but there got to be modern software and games or you have a worse issue then the CD32.

Why are you asking Duce? Ask aCube as they have already done it (I have one). Ask Jens as he's already doing it (I have one). Ask MikeJ as he is actually doing it (I have one of his prototypes).

But then I've already explained this.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[WotTheFook]

Therein lies the problem, Wildstar. Why does it have to be "mainstream"? What's wrong with being quirky and a little different? Why try and compete with too many things at the same time? Why try and sell the same thing into a saturated market, where you have no USP or differentiation? This is exactly why CUSA are shooting in the dark with their ideas and have no clear idea of their target market.

Some of us on here have done sales and marketing....

If you are going back to grass-roots programming to teach the next generation how do program properly, you don't need an uber computer at all; even a netbook is over the top. The simpler it is, the easier it will be for people to understand how to program for it.

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by WotTheFook

I mean this is a constructive way, believe me.

CUSA have not been without their own share of distortions and truth-bending. The question that needs answering is this one; who distorted the truth first...??

I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.

IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.

This isn't an intended as an insult but it is prevalent that people don't recall what someone says verbatim after less then a day. Already, proof above. I am guessing that it had become a bad case of misunderstanding from both parties and believe me, it is hard for keep calm when you read 10-15 pages full of insults.

I think it would be better if we strive to not get emotional with our responses and it takes all parties to make that happen.

It also makes it hard to tell and get the heads and tails of each response when there is so much vitriol.

Amiga community, can we all strive for less vitriol on our conduct. Lets forget who started what. Not worth it.

[WotTheFook]

Originally Posted by Wildstar128

I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.

IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.

This isn't an intended as an insult but it is prevalent that people don't recall what someone says verbatim after less then a day. Already, proof above. I am guessing that it had become a bad case of misunderstanding from both parties and believe me, it is hard for keep calm when you read 10-15 pages full of insults.

I think it would be better if we strive to not get emotional with our responses and it takes all parties to make that happen.

It also makes it hard to tell and get the heads and tails of each response when there is so much vitriol.

Amiga community, can we all strive for less vitriol on our conduct. Lets forget who started what. Not worth it.

Hmm... It's not what people have said that is the problem, per se; It's more about what has been said in print from the horse's mouth from false statements and posting of plagarised photographs on websites, used as CUSA's advertising, that is the issue. If CUSA's executives can't remember what they told people on websites, then "Oh what a tangled web (heh) we weave, when first we practice to deceive.."

As you allude to in your post, people who tell porkies have to have a good memory.... and people don't like being lied to....

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Wildstar128

I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.

You don't need to. We've supplied some of them right here.

IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.

There was no misunderstanding. It is a clear pattern of deliberate lies which has been ongoing for months.

What is also apparent is that you have no interest in admitting it. You are here with an agenda. Are yoiu being paid by the hour or by the post?

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by WotTheFook

Therein lies the problem, Wildstar. Why does it have to be "mainstream"? What's wrong with being quirky and a little different? Why try and compete with too many things at the same time? Why try and sell the same thing into a saturated market, where you have no USP or differentiation? This is exactly why CUSA are shooting in the dark with their ideas and have no clear idea of their target market.

Some of us on here have done sales and marketing....

If you are going back to grass-roots programming to teach the next generation how do program properly, you don't need an uber computer at all; even a netbook is over the top. The simpler it is, the easier it will be for people to understand how to program for it.

If the active Commodore and Amiga community was 100 times larger then it would be be more viable.

Part of the reason is Commodore USA doesn't have some angel putting in billion dollar venture capital that would allow it to do the R&D for a real product even if it is differentiated. The problem is that the digital computer industry is mature now. It is not a pioneering time anymore. They need to get started and get capital. If Barry had the venture capital and that you guys had a serious product that people would use daily for mainstream purpose then yeah.

Computers are like any other product or tool. It has to serve a purpose for which it is designed for. It must be usable to its purpose and ability first. The majority of people buy computers and other products because they need it. Most computer users use computers not program or develop for them. Most are not the geek crowd tinkering. Nothing wrong with that but that wasn't what Commodore Business Machines and Jack Tramiel was about. In fact, that was exactly the opposite. Computers for the masses not the classes. That was what it was about even in the post-Tramiel era even though they were confused with no leadership whatsoever but the only thing guiding them was the inertia of the C64 which Jack Tramiel and company had started. If Jack Tramiel stayed at Commodore, and he got Amiga.... Which would have happened. He would have brought Amiga out much akin to the C64 and c64 sales may have stopped or slown down faster to switch product and kind of followed a similar pattern between Apple II and Mac. At least the Amiga had color. There might not have been the 128 and the Amiga and PC line features would have been integrated so an Amiga would run intel software and x86 out of box and probably even the c64 would have been integrated in some way for backward compatibility as they consolidate the product lines and do it i expensively.

Amiga licensing may have happened at some point.

That is of course What if...

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by Darrin

You don't need to. We've supplied some of them right here.

There was no misunderstanding. It is a clear pattern of deliberate lies which has been ongoing for months.

What is also apparent is that you have no interest in admitting it. You are here with an agenda. Are yoiu being paid by the hour or by the post?

How many times do I have to tell you that I am not paid by CommodoreUSA whatsoever. I never had been paid by any of the Commodore entities. There is some of that by you and others on this. What is your reason?

Show me the very post this whole issue began. Not just thos thread but from when this whole animosity and issue began. Show me that.

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by WotTheFook

Hmm... It's not what people have said that is the problem, per se; It's more about what has been said in print from the horse's mouth from false statements and posting of plagarised photographs on websites, used as CUSA's advertising, that is the issue. If CUSA's executives can't remember what they told people on websites, then "Oh what a tangled web (heh) we weave, when first we practice to deceive.."

As you allude to in your post, people who tell porkies have to have a good memory.... and people don't like being lied to....

Alright, lets make it simple...

Put a list of the posts by Barry that you guys considered lies. The photo issue has been answered already. So, get over that one, guys. Does the factory really make that big of a difference. I do see some issue of not memorizing the issues or even recognizing the responses and selective listening and recall by someof the Amiga members here? What is their reason? Never mind, lets not waste time with that.

Simply put, I just simply want to see less emotionally driven vitriol on the matters of the discussions of this topic.

[number6]

Originally Posted by Wildstar128

Show me the very post this whole issue began. Not just thos thread but from when this whole animosity and issue began. Show me that.

Barry Altman's first post in the community:

read the exchanges that follow...you decide

Personally, I think this is counter productive to your desire to leave this in the past, but you asked...

#6

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by number6

Barry Altman's first post in the community:

read the exchanges that follow...you decide

Personally, I think this is counter productive to your desire to leave this in the past, but you asked...

#6

Thanks for digging that up.

I hope Wildstar reads it all from page 1 (but I'm sure he already knows about it). Then it is worth tracking down the other threads as they show more designed that are not theirs, insult customers, send insulting and threatening PMs, post the contents of private PMs, etc.

It should keep him busy for months.

[A1260]

Wildstar128=Barry

just admit it....

[CritAnime]

Also lets not forget this little nugget from Barry when the vic slims were been announced.

http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum...5&lang=en#4560

As far as how much we pay to have our VIC Slim manufactured: We currently pay US$ 297.40 (including duties & tariffs) for the barebones unit, and another $0.65 for air freight each. That totals $298.05. WE actually lose $3.05 on every unit we sell, but our long term plan is to make it up in volume.

This was the same thread that Barry also mentioned this when the question was asked about the vic slim pricing.

loaded, let me ask you a question first. Lets clarify. I'm not asking you how often you have sex, or if you have trouble performing. We already know that because we looked. I am asking what is your wife's favorite position, and does she really enjoy it? Since you seem to have no problem asking questions which no one in their right mind would ever ask, I thought you would have no trouble answering.