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[haywirepc]

Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.

[dammy]

Originally Posted by number6

Welcome. btw, same thread you said:




Yet in the Q/A, we have official confirmation that no talks took place.
I'm guessing your source at the time was probably not Barry. Heh.

#6

Just went by what Leo told me.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by dammy

Alright, I'm getting old.

Thanks

No, what is happening is that you have told us so many lies that you can't keep track of them.

So now Barry has sent 3 henchmen here to try and do some damage control.

I bet his blood pressure is through the roof.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by dammy

Just went by what Leo told me.

Same old excuse, it is always someone else's fault.

So are you confirming that Leo is a liar? Thanks. We'll save this quote too under "Dammy confirms that C-USA CTO spreads lies".

Cheers.

[commodorejohn]

Originally Posted by haywirepc

Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.

I don't think you read my post very carefully. My point is this: actual Raspberry Pi orders equalled the claimed production run for the C64x (to say nothing of whatever the total is for actual C64x sales) on the first day.

[Digiman]

Originally Posted by Wildstar128

Shutup,

Put your $$$$ to invest in the brand, company, acquiring the rights. Just because you bought the computer. I been an owner of Commodore computer as far back as the 80s. You have no invested interest in the IP.

Your interest is selfish and to your own personal gain. You don't believe anyone should buy and make money on the brand or that they are going to be some 1 hour a month bull **** business that does nothing. You guys don't buy new hardware.

If you can't really make Jens Schonfeld and others what their economic worth it, then I would have a hard time believing your intent to support. Even then, it is hard to classify him and some of these folks real businesses. They are supporting quasi-businesses. As for thee hobby and quasi-projects... It will only go so long and then what? Maybe it is ti e the old hw is museum piece while you enjoy the spirit of it via emulation. Oh wait.... You already do that...well most of you.

How many of you use this for real life serious business and professional work use. If there is 100s of members registered to this forum and only a few talk, that isn't enough. 2-3 out of a 100... How many of you is it just a pass time weekend hobby. How much is it serious daily business and work use.

Well you've just shown the entire forum what an uneducated retard you are

[dammy]

Originally Posted by Darrin

Same old excuse, it is always someone else's fault.

So are you confirming that Leo is a liar? Thanks. We'll save this quote too under "Dammy confirms that C-USA CTO spreads lies".

Cheers.

Damn you are a nasty person so no, that is not correct.

[WotTheFook]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

I don't think you read my post very carefully. My point is this: actual Raspberry Pi orders equalled the claimed production run for the C64x (to say nothing of whatever the total is for actual C64x sales) on the first day.

Exactly; this was my point as well. I'm glad someone else got it, in amongst all of the trolling.

Raspberry Pi are showing Commodore USA how it should be done. Make it simple, make it cheap but capable, make it so that people can tinker with it and let them loose with it.

This was the concept behind the first home 8-bit computers, like the Acorn and Spectrum as well as the C64 orignal.

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by CritAnime

Ok I am seriously lacking sleep. I have been up nearly 24hr and this might not be the most sensible post ever written. So appologies up front.

What I don't get is why Barry, or anyone from Commodore USA, officially affiliated or not, feels they need to come and try to convince us that they are the next best thing since sliced bread. Especially as how barry has stated in the past that he is not interested in the opinions from our "muddy little pond".

At the end of the day people will buy these machines. Regardless of what we or other people would say. Why?

Maybe they believe the hype. Maybe the think that this is the real return of commodore. Hell they may be influenced by nostalgia alone. But people will buy these things regardless.

So let them. Let them spend their money on what ever they feel like. Just please let's stop this silly bickering now. As much as I like to pick faults in their products, like woefully inadequate PSU's, I feel its getting to the point were its become more a personal attack rather than sensible discussion.

I agree....all this bickering is stupid, but maybe necessary so we can see/discuss how things are/could work out.

However there is one vital issue nobody seems to have picked upon, and that is the IP holder's role in all of this, in this case Hyperion and H&P. I know that they've done a lot of work over the years to improve the overall compatibility and user experience, but truthfully they have been holding back the community by sticking with the PPC route, holding onto their IPs so tightly and not going onto x86 or even ARM which have more powerful chips. As someone said had Bernie been given the money to port over Amithlon properly to x86 perhaps we would have had our dream machine today...


Also there's one last thing I must correct you here about CUSA and that is, Barry DOES ship different power PSUs for the different required specs. He has acknowledged this was a mistake with the specs page they published as he has confirmed here, so you/others who have ordered the Amiga Mini have nothing to worry about.... > http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/fo...start=15#14511

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by commodorejohn

Okay, now where are you getting the $6-8 million figure for CUSA from? What reason do we have to believe that they sold 10,000 C64xes in the past year? Nothing from them, certainly.

Every one of those first 10,000 were sold because they had to get a second batch. The $6-8 million figure accounts for also sales of the other products as well. CommodoreUSA got a lot more media attention and public awareness and ultimately purchases then every current hardware developer in the Commodore and classic Amiga community has ever been able to muster.

There was 250,000 C64DTVs in sold in the first batch. So, giving a reference of price difference of the DTV being 1/20th that of the initial price of the C64x. It would be reasonable that something at 20x the price is going to sell at about 1/20th the quantity.

If 10,000 units sold, you are talking $5,950,000 in gross revenue income. I didn't say profit. So, $6 million is a fair minimal. Lets add to that factor the other products ordered.

So even if 2/3 of the c64x were sold but there is also the other products as well. In short, $6-8 million is reasonable.

There is some royalties that has to be accounted for. I believe in the netherlands between asiarim, commodore licensing bv, commodore holding bv and all that convoluted money handling... I am venture to make a estimated guess based on royalties and some of the information gleaned from it.

The information is like a gestalt pattern. Enough to give you a sense but still some missing information.

[Pyromania]

Millions in sales? Time for fairy tales again? In the future each machine will be delivered by Unicorn?

http://hol.abime.net/399/boxscan

[Framiga]

Bill Gates and Dell! beware ... they are coming! :-)

[Digiman]

Originally Posted by Pyromania

Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???

Well either they are telling lies or Mr BS can't afford to pay them

[Wildstar128]

Originally Posted by haywirepc

Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.

There were over 6 million Commodore 8 bit and Amiga users/households world wide while Commodore was alive. There were 250,000 c64DTV solds. I think worldwide, 10,000 is reasonable.

Most bought it because they can have a computer that does real co,puter work to contemporary computing needs not 30 years and not half-ass. You got WYSIWYG with 16 million color word programs. What is printed is usually close to what you see. Mostly ink to light differences. In any case, you can do real stuff but most of those may have bought it for having a modern pc in a c64 style case with a good flavor of Linux with real computing and programming capability BUT you don't have to program Linux to use it. They have user interfaces like every other major OS like windows and mac osx. It is also produced by respectively legitimate licensee of the trademark and brand.

Of the 6 million individual users in the peak and probably closer to 10-12 million distinct individuals having bought c64s and a number of them were the bulk of Amiga purchasers. There is others who didn't get a Commodore back in the day that wanted one and probably had got one near the end or second hand shortly after 1994/1995 and then was part of the community when the community was closer to a million active users and they left with the mass progressive exodus between 1995-2000. Those years had huge impacts on the Commodore community. There is not remotely that many Commodore and Amiga users active. I have not seen much of any computer hardware product from anyone other than CMD that sold more than 250 in a 1-3 year span. How many hardware products other than x-cables and other cheap cales made by many different hobbyists and vendors, sold in the order of 1000+.

Anyone ?

The life blood of any business to be in business is to have cash revenues. Other than what can be said as tax fraud are you making profit. Deliberately making products knowing you never make a profit on is not something that can be lawfully used as business loss on taxes. Deliberately making a business loss and getting the IRS to reward you for that... Is definitely an abuse of the system and best described as a form of tax fraud.

I am not sure about the other countries but I would think they would have measures to come in with police force, break your legs and throw in jail while waiting for years to get a trial and even then it is a kangaroo court.

The hobby 'business' maybe more relaxed on these issues but to be a business.. The bottom line must be kept in mind.

For a developer to make this something of a full-time business, you better make the money or you better have a serious trust fund or win the PCH $5000 a week for life or the big lottery or a government supporting your living expenses (social security, welfare, etc.). Then yeah, I can see you doing this for nothing.

The majority of us don't have that and every hour spent on producing something must be accounted for.

Can any of you really be able to support customers daily and spend 40 hours a week or more running a business dedicated to the Commodore and Amiga classic systems developing hardware and software as commercialware?

I think we agree that is not a reality at this point in time and probably not for any foreseeable future.

I know people have came to accustom of waiting 10 years for an order to be fulfilled.

Lets think about this for a moment. Some of you might know what I am referring to.

One of the challenges for me to purchase stuff from hobbyist is I am not in any desire to wait 10 years for an order to be fulfilled and it never gets fulfilled. I want something in a reasonable timeframe fulfilled. I can handle a few months from a hobbyist. It depends of course.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by dammy

Damn you are a nasty person so no, that is not correct.

Actually I'm a very nice person. Ask anybody who has met me. Probably because I'm an honest person and honesty is something you appear to know very little about.

So, what YOU said and what I interpreted from it is absolutely correct.