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[Darrin]

Originally Posted by vox

and I do believe you have even announced a Partnership with Cloanto

Oooh! Good catch!

Yes, the did announce such a "partnership" which is why everyone assumed that Amiga Forever was part of the package.

I wonder what happened to this deal. Perhaps Cloanto backed out when the first cheque failed to clear (or even arrive).

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by dammy

Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.

Funnt how C-USA couldn't answer any questions as to WHAT they actually could deliver, thus fragmenting the possible producted into as many options as possible. In short, C-USA had no wish or ability to provide a product the community wanted and it was just a quick mind-game to silence us while you sold PCs with Amiga names on them.

The problem with these games you play is that people see striaght through them. iWin were better poker players than you guys.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Digiman

If (big if) C=USA have Kickstart included in unit/volume licensing they don't need Amiga Forever legally.

However on the other hand they need to supply digital copies of the ROMs with each computer rather than hosting the existing piratey ROMs out there for downloads or condoning Google searches for unencrypted ROM downloads. This is the quagmire of legal emulation description however and why, as I understand it, Cloanto had to encrypt ROMs they supply so they could not be used by people with no right to use them with freely available [WIN]UAE and only licensed Amiga Forever.

Obviously not having UAE installed and configured on each machine sold is Ostrich head in the sand 'solution'

Very true, although as Vox (and C-USA) have said, they did announce that agreement. Once again it was to try and add "value" to a product that has none.

C-USA announce a "new" OS included in the price of their machines so people think they're also buying a $100 Operating System like Windows or MacOS. Instead they get free Linux.

C-USA announce a partnership with Cloanto so people think they're getting a $30 software package included in the price. The package silently vanishes.

Customers think they're getting "real" tech support. Instead they play roulette and hope somebody happens to be near the telephone when they call.

The list goes on...

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Digiman

Asking customers to design product scope & specification without an accurate description of technical solutions C=USA has the competency to design and build is NOT a viable business plan. Asking them to pay up front is also lunacy.

It is 100% down to C=USA to define their ability to legally, technically and financially be able to potential deliver the following....

1. C64x style bespoke identical replica Amiga case + keyboard + mouse
2. Ability to license existing/build new PPC motherboards with OS4 compatibility
3. Feasibility of x86 Amithlon+OS3.9 or AROS system being developed.

All I saw was a $500,000 attempted scam.

Yep, and pity the poor bugger who volunteered to collect the cash. Imagine trying to collect US$500 worth of Pounds, Euros, Australian Dollars, New Zealand Dollars, Pobble Beads, Chickens, Goats, etc, with fluctuating exchange rates. Imagine then trying to refund money to people who back out or when the whole deals turns out to be bollocks. The transaction fees alone would hurt.

It was a completely insane idea from a company who is supposed to be in business. The fact that they suggested it meant that they either knew it wouldn't happen and/or they have no concept on how financial transactions work in a global market.

The idea of having "someone else" organise it and hold the money was a cleaver ploy to protect themselves legally. Kind of like offloading their product assembly and technical support onto the "dealers" they're trying to recruit.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by koaftder

Hmmm, that sounds another company we know...

and I still have my $50 (virtual) voucher.

[Digiman]

Originally Posted by BigBenAussie

@Vox. As Commodore USA is still a small company it is not currently possible to make everyone's (including ours) dream come true in regard to fulfilling various things the community wants that would denote more of the Amiga's heritage. This is regrettable, but unavoidable at the moment. We have stated the clear intention to do so. Barry even did so a few times in the interview. There have been various miss-steps of course, and all sorts of things were either promised prematurely or stated as plans in the euphoria of the moment of having secured usage of the trademarks. So what? Sometimes things don't go to plan. Stuff happens. But why that should in any way cause such consternation I have no idea. No one is forcing you to buy our products and nothing in your computing life has changed really. You just have another entity with the same goals as most of you, that can't do it all right now, but hopes to.

Incidentally, that magazine(?) article is incorrect. Amiga ROMs for game emulation are under our license from Amiga Inc. Because of this, after many months of discussions, we are still on the fence as to whether it is worth our while licensing Amiga Forever.

If C=USA can't produce replica cases of classic Amiga cases and replica keyboard+mouse designs with Wintel innards inside at the very least then C64x must be a commercial failure that didn't even break even therefore.

There is no other reason to try pimping a $50 Chinese HTPC case that neither looks anything like ANY Amiga EVER sold 1985-94, or is of a similar concept, with a copy of Linux running on standard Wintel silicone. There isn't any business sense in this.

Why anyone at C=USA thinks Amiga Mini has any value to people who are/were interested in real Amigas or OS4 compatibles is beyond me really.

The Amiga Mini in a business context is a waste of time and brand licensing costs.

[Digiman]

Originally Posted by Darrin

The idea of having "someone else" organise it and hold the money was a cleaver ploy to protect themselves legally. Kind of like offloading their product assembly and technical support onto the "dealers" they're trying to recruit.

Well they off loaded the case design and hardware+OS specs to us so might as well have someone else deal with the finance issues too eh?

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Digiman

Well they off loaded the case design and hardware+OS specs to us so might as well have someone else deal with the finance issues too eh?

LOL.

Perhaps when you order from them you're expected to fly to Florida, walk into their shop, assemble your own computer, box it up, address it to yourself and then drop it off at FedEx on your way back to the airport.

[Digiman]

Originally Posted by Darrin

Very true, although as Vox (and C-USA) have said, they did announce that agreement. Once again it was to try and add "value" to a product that has none.

C-USA announce a "new" OS included in the price of their machines so people think they're also buying a $100 Operating System like Windows or MacOS. Instead they get free Linux.

C-USA announce a partnership with Cloanto so people think they're getting a $30 software package included in the price. The package silently vanishes.

Customers think they're getting "real" tech support. Instead they play roulette and hope somebody happens to be near the telephone when they call.

The list goes on...

True. Very worrying that Amiga Mini is a real turd of a product to start with mind.

OK C64x, price and OS aside, was a viable niche product. Had the price not been $1000 more than dead C64+keyrah+i7 micro ATX m/b it may have sold well enough.

They were supposed to improve product line not go back to branded unrelated PCs as sold before C64x

[Digiman]

Originally Posted by Darrin

LOL.

Perhaps when you order from them you're expected to fly to Florida, walk into their shop, assemble your own computer, box it up, address it to yourself and then drop it off at FedEx on your way back to the airport.

They would probably charge extra for the privilege of visiting their factory as a 'deluxe tour' option

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Digiman

True. Very worrying that Amiga Mini is a real turd of a product to start with mind.

OK C64x, price and OS aside, was a viable niche product. Had the price not been $1000 more than dead C64+keyrah+i7 micro ATX m/b it may have sold well enough.

They were supposed to improve product line not go back to branded unrelated PCs as sold before C64x

My gripe about the C64x was the keyboard layout. The whole "menu key" concept was naff. They should have just been normal F10-F12 function keys, the C64 graphic symbols should have been on the keys and a C64 emulator should have been pre-installed with the keyboard mapping already set up. Oh, and throw in a USB joystick too and some *.D64 and/or *.T64 games.

As a novelty (because it wasn't good enought to be a main computer for me at home) it was too expensive to buy "for a laugh".

Meanwhile, I've just picked up a C128D off eBay and it looks almost brand new (so my brother tells me because I'm at work and he unboxed with it).

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by Digiman

They would probably charge extra for the privilege of visiting their factory as a 'deluxe tour' option

and make you answer the phone when people call with problems.

<ring! ring!>
Barry: "Would you mind getting that?"
Customer: "Err, sure. Hello, can I help you?"
Person on Phone: "Can I speak to Commodore Tech Support please? My C64x is buggered and doesn't appear to have a mouse."
Customer: "hang on, I'll get someone... Barry! It's a call for Tech Support."
Barry: "Uh, please deal with it, I, err, I, um... I need to take a dump! Be right back!"
<Barry runs from sight>
Customer: "Leo?"
Leo: "Um, I need a dump too. Bye!"
<Leo runs after Barry>
Customer: "Dammy?"
<Dammy runs after Leo>
Customer: "Err... could you please describe the nature of your technical emergency?"...

[Argo]

Originally Posted by dammy

Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.

I don't know of any group that size or large that could agree on anything. I know it has not happened in any organizations or clubs I've been a member of.

[A1260]

Originally Posted by tone007

I bet the Amiga online community could very easily get 500 people together to tell C=USA to go to hell.

lets do a poll and see...

[dammy]

Originally Posted by Argo

I don't know of any group that size or large that could agree on anything. I know it has not happened in any organizations or clubs I've been a member of.

Then the community needs to get a petition together asking C=USA to lower the required number of units. Five hundred is not that significant number of units, it speaks volumes on the real world potential market strength of the online Amiga community.