amiga.org
     
iconAll times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.

» Amiga.org » Amiga computer related discussion » Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion » MiniMig with AGA

Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion This forum is dedicated to the discussion and resolution of issues related to Classic and Next Generation Amiga hardware. Got a problem with a piece of hardware? Click to speak.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2009, 08:27 AM   #1
Palm
Too much caffeine
Points: 4,922, Level: 44 Points: 4,922, Level: 44 Points: 4,922, Level: 44
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 84
Default MiniMig with AGA

Has anyone a good technical answer to this:

As the MinMig works great as a A500, is it possible to do the same to the A1200 ? Or is the A1200 so much more complex than the A500, that making it in a FPGA is virtually impossible ?

Just wondering :-)


Espen
Palm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:29 AM   #2
countzero
Defender of the Faith
Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
countzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,937
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

it's not impossible, but difficult. but I believe it will be done eventually. there's already a project called NatAmi which progresses very slow (some also regard as vaporware).
__________________
I believe in mt. Fuji
countzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:35 AM   #3
Palm
Too much caffeine
Points: 4,922, Level: 44 Points: 4,922, Level: 44 Points: 4,922, Level: 44
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 84
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Yep. I did see the NatAmi project, but there is not much hype around it. Will it ever be finished ? Pricy ? Any useful ?

We´ve seen that quick, dirty and cheap solutions work well. Like the C64DTV. Not quite perfect, but cheap and available. This made it a killer piece of HW to modify. I still love mine. I also think MiniMig is great. It is available, and works great. Alot of hacks seem to surface aswell and new cores comes out now and then.

As you say, it should be possible for a A1200 "minimig". However, I wonder who will make it, and when it will be out. Price is as always in the amiga-world: way-too-much (but we like that...hehe)

Espen
Palm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:42 AM   #4
bloodline
Master Sock Abuser
Points: 39,880, Level: 100 Points: 39,880, Level: 100 Points: 39,880, Level: 100
Activity: 13% Activity: 13% Activity: 13%
 
bloodline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11,978
Blog Entries: 3
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
Palm wrote:
Has anyone a good technical answer to this:

As the MinMig works great as a A500, is it possible to do the same to the A1200 ? Or is the A1200 so much more complex than the A500, that making it in a FPGA is virtually impossible ?

Just wondering :-)


Espen
The MiniMig has a 68000, AGA needs 68020 minimum... Can you even buy 020s cheap anymore?

The minimig has 12bit video out put... AGA needs 24bit... Should be as simple as adding a few more resistors to the DACs, I think there is enough IO left on the FPGA.

AGA is poorly documented... Bug fixing would be a pain... But I expect there is probably still enough room left on the FPGA (AGA was a very limited upgrade from ECS)... I don't know how much is used right now?
__________________
My iPhone Game: Puny Humans -
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/puny-...362230281?mt=8
bloodline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:48 AM   #5
countzero
Defender of the Faith
Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
countzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,937
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
bloodline wrote:

AGA is poorly documented... Bug fixing would be a pain... But I expect there is probably still enough room left on the FPGA (AGA was a very limited upgrade from ECS)... I don't know how much is used right now?
it really depends on the FPGA you're talking. what I know is minimig + 68k core takes about %70 of the resources of the Altera DE1 board, which is an entry level board. Higher/Newer models have an order of magnitude more space. AGA will definitely fit there. 68020, I dunno, but it should as well.
__________________
I believe in mt. Fuji
countzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:50 AM   #6
countzero
Defender of the Faith
Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69 Points: 10,900, Level: 69
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
countzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,937
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
Palm wrote:

We´ve seen that quick, dirty and cheap solutions work well. Like the C64DTV. Not quite perfect, but cheap and available.
I don't think a quick dirty cheap solution will suffice for a AGA + 68020 machine. somebody needs to sit and think about it for a long time, it's not c64.
__________________
I believe in mt. Fuji
countzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:32 AM   #7
mikej
Cult Member
Points: 8,790, Level: 63 Points: 8,790, Level: 63 Points: 8,790, Level: 63
Activity: 22% Activity: 22% Activity: 22%
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 752
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

The Spartan3 400 in the Minimig is pretty close to full.
The board I have been working on has a much larger (3e1200) device and the prototypes will have a 3e1600 device on board. The video is 24 bit. There is enough IO to support an external 68020 processor, and I believe there is sufficient space in the FPGA to run a 68020 core when we have one. The jump from 16 to 32bit will expand the logic, but hopefully that will be limited to the ALU - most of the logic is taken up with instruction and address control in the softcore.

The AGA chipset is not well documented so it won't be simple to implement it accurately, there is no fundamental issue with doing so however.

I have an ST, A500 and A1200 machine with me now so I can work on the board bringup. Once I have my ST core and the original Minimig core running with my memory controller (32MByte on board) and video then I will look at expanding the Minimig hardware. I do FPGAs for a living, this board design stuff has taken far too long - once I have a nice platform I hope to get things moving quite quickly. Couple of years then


/Mike
www.fpgaarcade.com
mikej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 02:50 PM   #8
yaqube
Technoid
Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 197
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

I have implemented all the AGA features into the Minimig core using MikeJ's Replay board. You can watch it running on YouTube.



As there is no 68020+ IP core available the TG68 CPU core is used. It runs at 7.09 MHz with no bus latency and according to SysInfo is 1.85 faster than a stock A1200.

The 64 MB of DDR SDRAM is configured as 2 MB Chip, 1.5 MB Slow, 8 MB Fast and 48 MB of extra memory which can be used as additional Chip memory. You can have 50 MB of Chip RAM in total.
yaqube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:17 PM   #9
Hell Labs
Banned
Points: 597, Level: 11 Points: 597, Level: 11 Points: 597, Level: 11
Activity: 68% Activity: 68% Activity: 68%
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St.Helens, oop north, England
Posts: 490
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

I like that. I like that a lot.
Hell Labs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:19 PM   #10
desiv
Defender of the Faith
Points: 6,191, Level: 51 Points: 6,191, Level: 51 Points: 6,191, Level: 51
Activity: 64% Activity: 64% Activity: 64%
 
desiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,260
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
I have implemented all the AGA features into the Minimig core using MikeJ's Replay board. You can watch it running on YouTube.
WOW... Nice work....

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
As there is no 68020+ IP core available the TG68 CPU core is used. It runs at 7.09 MHz with no bus latency and according to SysInfo is 1.85 faster than a stock A1200.
I'm surprised that those programs and games are running on a 68000. I assumed (I know) that they would have used instructions limited to the 68020 instruction set?? Are there not that many actual differences in the two from the codes perspective?

desiv
desiv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:30 PM   #11
Cammy
Defender of the Faith
Points: 12,949, Level: 74 Points: 12,949, Level: 74 Points: 12,949, Level: 74
Activity: 19% Activity: 19% Activity: 19%
 
Cammy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In my own little world, Australia
Posts: 1,368
Send a message via MSN to Cammy
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Holy crap, that's impressive! I love the way you just increased the ChipRAM so that gigantic image would load. Wow!
__________________
A1200 030@28Mhz/2MB+32MB/RTC/KS3.1/IDE-CF+4GB/4-Way Clockport Expander/IndivisionAGA/PCMCIA NIC
A1200 020@14Mhz/2MB+8MB/FPU/RTC/KS3.0/IDE-CF+2GB/S-Video
CD32 020@14Mhz/2MB+8MB/RTC/KS3.1/IDE-CF+4GB
A600 030@30Mhz/2MB+64MB/RTC/IDE-CF+4GB/Subway USB/S-Video/PCMCIA NIC/USB Numeric Keypad+Hub+Mouse+Control Pad
A500 000@7Mhz/512kB+512kB/ROM Switcher/KS3.1+1.3/S-Video

Get AmigaOS for your PC, it's FREE and comes in two flavours!
www.icarosdesktop.org
www.aros-broadway.de
Cammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:33 PM   #12
NovaCoder
Premium Member
Points: 10,966, Level: 69 Points: 10,966, Level: 69 Points: 10,966, Level: 69
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,541
Blog Entries: 2
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
I have implemented all the AGA features into the Minimig core using MikeJ's Replay board. You can watch it running on YouTube.



As there is no 68020+ IP core available the TG68 CPU core is used. It runs at 7.09 MHz with no bus latency and according to SysInfo is 1.85 faster than a stock A1200.

The 64 MB of DDR SDRAM is configured as 2 MB Chip, 1.5 MB Slow, 8 MB Fast and 48 MB of extra memory which can be used as additional Chip memory. You can have 50 MB of Chip RAM in total.
Nice, when will it be available to purchase?
__________________
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


AmiWolf AGA, AmiSpear AGA, BOOM AGA, ZDOOM AGA, Odamex AGA, AmiQuake AGA, AmiQuake 2 AGA
NovaCoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:33 PM   #13
Lando
Defender of the Faith
Points: 11,051, Level: 69 Points: 11,051, Level: 69 Points: 11,051, Level: 69
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,384
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

This is a fantastic piece of work! Just wondering, how can it be accessing so much memory if it's using a 68000 core? The 68000 only has a 24 bit address bus, which would limit it to 16MB?
Lando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:48 PM   #14
koshman
Technoid
Points: 2,884, Level: 32 Points: 2,884, Level: 32 Points: 2,884, Level: 32
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
koshman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 427
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

EDIT: Nevermind, a wrong thread...
__________________
- Radim

A1200D - 68060/80, 64MB RAM, 4GB CF, Buffalo WLAN card
A3000D - 68030/25, 16MB RAM, Cybervision 64/3D, X-Surf
A500 - 68000/7, 2,5MB RAM

Last edited by koshman; 02-21-2010 at 03:55 PM..
koshman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 03:51 PM   #15
yaqube
Technoid
Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45 Points: 5,126, Level: 45
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 197
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lando View Post
Just wondering, how can it be accessing so much memory if it's using a 68000 core? The 68000 only has a 24 bit address bus, which would limit it to 16MB?
The TG68 IP core has full 32-bit address bus so it can access up to 4 GB of memory space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
Nice, when will it be available to purchase?
Mike should finish the new PCB layout in a couple of days and then should have new boards made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv View Post
I'm surprised that those programs and games are running on a 68000. I assumed (I know) that they would have used instructions limited to the 68020 instruction set?? Are there not that many actual differences in the two from the codes perspective?
Those games don't use any feature specific to 020+ CPUs. I guess it was easier for developers to have the same code base for different (OCS/AGA) versions of their games.
yaqube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #16
tasmanian guy
Lifetime Member
Points: 6,045, Level: 50 Points: 6,045, Level: 50 Points: 6,045, Level: 50
Activity: 5% Activity: 5% Activity: 5%
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 269
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

I want one NOW!!!! Please tell me when these boards go on sale they'll be under $300 Australian pretty please! (less than 280US?)
tasmanian guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 04:25 PM   #17
wawrzon
Defender of the Faith
Points: 9,389, Level: 65 Points: 9,389, Level: 65 Points: 9,389, Level: 65
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,772
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

as a sidenote here is a link to tobias' own post showing his improved core running with 40mhz on DE2 board hooked as a turbocard to a expansion bus of a 500er.

http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread....light=tobiflex
wawrzon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 05:44 PM   #18
Darrin
Lifetime Member
Points: 20,716, Level: 90 Points: 20,716, Level: 90 Points: 20,716, Level: 90
Activity: 44% Activity: 44% Activity: 44%
 
Darrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Posts: 4,390
Send a message via AIM to Darrin Send a message via Yahoo to Darrin
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqube View Post
The TG68 IP core has full 32-bit address bus so it can access up to 4 GB of memory space.

Mike should finish the new PCB layout in a couple of days and then should have new boards made.

Those games don't use any feature specific to 020+ CPUs. I guess it was easier for developers to have the same code base for different (OCS/AGA) versions of their games.
Holy crap! Great work there. I'm so out of touch on how the Minimig core has developed thanks to the way my company has been working me to death lately.

Do you know if "X-Com: UFO Enemy Unknown AGA" works?
__________________
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
Darrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 05:58 PM   #19
kolla
Defender of the Faith
Points: 12,417, Level: 72 Points: 12,417, Level: 72 Points: 12,417, Level: 72
Activity: 80% Activity: 80% Activity: 80%
 
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,743
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

Yay, this is much more news worthy than X1000 if you ask me!
__________________
-- kolla
kolla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 07:03 PM   #20
Gulliver
Defender of the Faith
Points: 15,413, Level: 80 Points: 15,413, Level: 80 Points: 15,413, Level: 80
Activity: 27% Activity: 27% Activity: 27%
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South of the south
Posts: 1,375
Blog Entries: 2
Default Re: MiniMig with AGA

I agree, this is much better than a SAM/X1000
Gulliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
aga , pimp , minimig , awesome

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: MiniMig Astral Amiga Marketplace 0 02-01-2009 03:19 AM
Just got my Minimig! slobu General chat about Amiga topics 6 09-19-2008 06:22 PM
Would you pay €226 for a minimig? Everblue General chat about Amiga topics 56 01-17-2008 03:35 AM
FA: Minimig McVenco Amiga Marketplace 24 10-20-2007 11:43 PM
what is minimig? rednova General chat about Amiga topics 1 09-08-2007 04:25 PM