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Old 11-06-2007, 06:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

@lou_dias

Only if you wanted to spend eyars at it for no real gain. The simplest, and most effective method of integration would be to have a method to identify when a non-native App is being called (already in place) then to have it launch EUAE to then handle said application. Once you have this level done, then you can start getting fancier.
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

Quote:
Wouldn't this intergration trap and translate Kickstart calls to the OS's version?
Yes, but more than that, it must also "trap" poking/peeking of OS structures since application programming under AmigaOS relies/relied quite alot on that.
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

Quote:
Wouldn't this intergration trap and translate Kickstart calls to the OS's version?
You need to have a full 68K OS for the 68k program so that they can mess around with system structures (which they are not supposed to but Commodore never said not to...)... Then the higher level 68K OS fucntions can be patched to call the AROS native functions, like the windowing system and the input systems... giving the 68k prorgrams the appreaence of running totally nativly... but in fact they will be safely locked inside a virtual sandbox... think OS9 classic on PPC MacOSX
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Old 11-08-2007, 08:25 AM   #19
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

IMHO he'd be mad to any AROS hacking.

I think he should just create a method of utilising the UAE screen buffer, to "greenscreen" the real AmigaOS desktop background and superimpose desktop elements of the real AmigaOS desktop over AROS Wanderer.
There's no reason he couldn't establish a protocol or API for this to work on all other E-UAE capable OSes like Linux, MorphOS or OS4.

He may need to run an app on the real AmigaOS to establish a communication mechanism to adjust the real AmigaOS's visual implementation and call apps as required. You don't want to start multiple UAEs, but just have one. Later he can put some smarts into this real AmigaOS app to merge it seemlessly with the host OS (for instance to run inside hosted windows).

Such a method is used by Mac Virtualisation software and has been coined the term "coherence".

Down the track, if the AROS68k version becomes fully 68k compatable you might think of calling x86 routines to speed up classic apps. While I don't know the state of the AROS68k version I would imagine that this scenario is way into the distant future.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

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You don't want to start multiple UAEs, but just have one.
No one said apps should run in their own instances (unless they take over the virtual Amiga).
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:12 AM   #21
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

Coherence mode, ahh the pleasures of being able to run Windows as an integrated part of Mac OSX. To piles of bloat all at once!


I don't know much beyond Turbo Basic (he he he), so I'm not sure how this would be done, but what BigBenAussie said sounds logical because the other concept of having multiple instances of UAE running at the same time would be a resource killer, and would prevent the fluid mulit-tasking that we are accustomed to on real Amiga hardware, thus making this whole venture pretty pointless considering that the whole point of e-UAE is to catch up with WinUAE which would finally give us a competent and fast UAE that is not restricted to running on Windows, and therefore held back by the mariad of short comings within the Windows operating system that make UAE seem just a little bit flakey and odd, no matter how well your PC is decked out.

Of course there is also the fact that AROS is supposed to be a clone of Workbench, and Workbench was always fluid and resource friendly, so it would not make much sence at all to want integrated 68xxx Amiga support at the cost of all your RAM, and CPU power. I mean I can't see wanting to have a few classic Amiga apps on my screen, when they are going to make my whole system bogg down, if that were the case, I'd just let go of my integration dreams, and just fire up e-UAE again so that I can run more than one thing at a time without having to worry.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:46 AM   #22
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

As I wrote, no one said (wrote) anything about multiple instances of EUAE, *unless* the second/third/fourth.. emulated app would *take over* the virtual (emulated) Amiga, or are you fine with seeing the other apps "sleep" when the "offending" app says "hello" ?
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

He he, you must have replied as I typed.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

@BigBenAussie

It's not that no one has thought about "your" method, the problem is the level of integration this would provide, how would you "greenscreen" out the emulated AmigaOS desktop elements (affectively layers) and "superimpose" those elements (layers) AND integrate those into the host windowing system (every layer must apperar to be a native one) without hacking/patching the emulated KS/OS ?

If you look at Georg's (the AROS dev that did something similar) "greenscreen" method then look specifically at 0:01:05 when he clicks the depth gadget, the window only goes to the rear of the UEA/AmigaOS instance windows, NOT to the rear of host windows, this gives you a fact, with this method all UAE/AmigaOS windows (layers) are only one single "alpha-blended" layer in the host OS.
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Old 11-10-2007, 02:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: EvilRich Assigned to TeamAROS Bounty #7, EUAE Integratio

Is there somewhere wehere we can track progress of this? Is there a blog or something?
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